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The Spirit Realm • View topic - ALCHEMY CHANGES
Page 1 of 1

ALCHEMY CHANGES

PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:06 pm
by kag

PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:22 pm
by Gadzuks

PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:47 pm
by Aruman

Re: ALCHEMY CHANGES

PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:05 pm
by Finori

PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:21 pm
by Delziki

PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:42 pm
by Pebbells
I have to disagree with you also...

While I will admit that when the changes first came out, I was a bit dismayed to see that 5 years worth of recipes were now useless, that opinion changed within about 3 minutes. Whereas potions used to be basically thrown out there willy-nilly as each expansion came out, with little room for expansion on the recipes, they are now much more logical and easier to expand upon. So it takes a little work to become an alchemist that knows every recipe again (Or just a little waiting as all recipes are being posted as they are found). This is what an evolving game is all about. This isn't WoW, this is a game that takes a little bit of flexibility, thought and work, especially if you want things fixed. Or should we expect to have all the little problems with class fixed with a neat little wave of the programmer's magic keyboard and then handed to us on a silver platter? If we wanted a static game where the staff fixes all of our problems for us, and we have no need to think for ourselves every once in a while, I think most of us would go back to Pong.

The whole point is that the staff, and Ngreth in particular, have come a long way to helping out us paying customers. And Ngreth has kept us informed of the known problems and let us know that they are aware of them and trying to fix them. Give him a little bit of time to fix the problems and at least be willing to meet him halfway.

(There was no flame intended in the above post, btw! :) )

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 3:22 am
by Ungkor
Summary:
1. Most alchemy effects are not powerful enough to warrant dropped/foraged items.
2. Smoother progression routes is a good thing.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I disagree in some ways and agree in others.

I do not like how every single level X potion requires dropped/foraged items. The power of most alchemy products does not warrant, in any way, shape, or form, the requirement of dropped items.

Was a 32 point DS really that powerful that it needed to both be halved and now require dropped items?

If you want alchemy X potions to require drops, they better be for effects that are so profound that all players sell the dropped items. For a perfect example, look at metallic drake scales. 20k selling price, reasonable drop rate, good experience, and a final product that sells for 50k-100k.

Who in there right mind would believe that the EQ player base is gonna save and sell alchemy items for 25p-150p for minor effects? That means that if I want a 2min recast 36 disease counter cure, I'll have to PERSONALLY farm drop after drop to stockpile a 20 pack of potions. I certainly won't find enough of the dropped items in the bazaar to make any potions consistently. It just isn't worth a traders time to sell a handful of reagents a week.

You know what that means? It'll never happen.

In order for a tradeskill to actually be a viable economic force, it needs to be able to create items that are A) valued, and B) consistently producible.

The less "A" you have, the more "B" you need and vice versa. Take Sow potions. Sow Level X potions are NOT valued enough (with runspeed aa's) for folks to actually want to save and sell the components required to make them. Any alchemist seeking to make large batches of sow potions is going to have to farm the parts. It is, plain and simple, a failed model.

Now look at the other end of things. Oow augments for example. Highly valued, but not in any way consistently producible. The drop rate of discordant s. is so low, that they never really became a significant part of the market. The value was there, but the reproducible level wasn't high enough to actually capitolize on the value.

What alchemy needs is effects that are in line with the time required to produce them. The new system is a big, BIG step back from the previous system in this regard.

So what type of effects are worthy of having dropped components? Well, imo, major ones. Rez, DA, overhaste, etc.. Put some of those type of potion effects in the game and I'll be happy to farm for hours to make 1-2 of them. And, of course, sell them for 50-100k apiece.

Curing 36 disease counters every 2 minutes shouldn't require a dropped component. The player base at large isn't going to save them and sell them, and the effect isn't worth my time to actually farm the parts myself.

Now, what I really like about the new revamp, is that the skillup route is very systematic and smooth. It doesn't benefit 99% of the hardcore alchemists, but still, it was a good move overall for future potion makers.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:25 am
by Delziki
now see that's exactly what i'm talking about Ungkor. very good.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:23 am
by kag
Good post Ungkor, solid points

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:28 am
by Gadzuks

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:40 pm
by Scowls

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:56 pm
by Samanna

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:16 am
by Jeis

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:31 am
by Gadzuks