Throwing potions

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Throwing potions

Postby WaringMcMarrin » Sat Oct 21, 2006 5:26 pm

Has anyone done much throwing of potions since TSS was launched? Wondering how many are worth using now.
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Postby Brohg » Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:24 pm

Since they still use their own casting level instead of the thrower's, they're worthless due to near-total resists.
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Postby Aristein » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:04 am

Sure would be nice to be able to use these.

I would even work on my throwing skill!
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Postby Boleslav » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:34 am

To follow up on what Brohg said... Throwing potions are a "one-per-mob" thing. Let's look at snare potions as an example. Back when you could use a Ensaring Concoction III to snare a mob, they were great. But now Ensaring Concoction III casts like it were a level 25 (?) caster, which means it will be resisted every time by a mob that higher level toons would fight for experience.

There are thrown potions that cast like a level 70 character, but they take dropped ingredients, like Powder of Ro, to make. Powder of Ro is not uncommon, but certainly not something you are gonna drop on a "one-per-mob" basis. The alchemy restructure basically took these out of the game. If you have one or two mobs that REALLY need to be snared for an important reason you might pop for a couple. But the days of me using these to snare when 2-boxing or in a group without a snarer are over.

It might make sense to try to scale the potions that are "one-per-mob" to be more equitable than those with a lasting effect, like the damage shield potions. A level X damage shield potion lasts about 15 minutes. You can kill quite a few mobs in 15 minutes. Maybe having the "one-per-mob" potions yield 10 or 20 per rare ingredient would make them useful again.

Edit: just gotta ramble some more.... Also, a level V damage shield potion is still useful. It will hit experience mobs for 25 points. Meanwhile a level V snare potion is useless to anyone over level 30. There should be a way to make them scale better this way as well.

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Postby Hecude Poison`Blood » Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:56 pm

could we possible get a sharpened stick to poke the devs with the question of making the potions use the throwers lvl instead of there own so there not completely useless. :twisted:
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Postby Brohg » Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:10 pm

There's a "ripple effect" blocking swift resolution of this issue, Hecude. Currently potions work just like every other item in the game. Changing how potions work would, reflexively, change how every other item in the game works. Bad moon rising, earthquakes & lightning, mass chaos, frogs from the sky, Utah turns blue, Tharkis decides to be a man, etc & et al.
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Postby WaringMcMarrin » Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:11 pm

Also then what would be the point of the higher level versions of the potion if they all worked the same.
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Postby Hecude Poison`Blood » Wed Dec 27, 2006 4:15 am

there is no point to them atm b/c of the casting lvl. if this was removed or changed they would be useful possibly.
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Postby Veril » Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:56 am

Potions used as buffs work fine with the casting level of the potion being determined by the level of the potion (I-X). Potion Buffs last a decent duration 30 mins or so. Potion buffs provide meaningful and useful benefits to the person using them.

Potions being used as debuffs don't work the same way though. You use one potion per mob. Over a 30 min period, I would want to use 30 snare potions (one per mob) vs. one single Mana regen potion, (or perhaps two damage shield potions.)

Low level buffs are worthwhile, Damage Shield V is buyable in component form and gives a 25 point damage shield. That's a very reasonable contribution. A mob hits 30 times before it dies, that 900 damage per mob, and over a 15 min period (1 mob per min) that is 13500 damage over the duration of the potion.

There are to me two ways to fix the problem:

1) Increase the yield of the harmful potions to 20 per instead of 1 per. That's the simplest fix and would make it worthwhile producing them.

2) Have harmful potions use the level of the thrower for resistance purposes, and scale the effects of the potion according to the level of the potion. The already existing required and reccomended levels on the potions provide the means to stop low level characters from using these potions to gain an unfair advantage.
Snare could be 5% per level.
Darkness would be -5 or 10atk per level.
DoT's would be 200 damage per level overe the duration of the DoT etc

It's not difficult, although it does of course take time to do this.
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Postby Hecude Poison`Blood » Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:44 pm

/cry

Hecude_PoisonBlood wrote:
Not sure if this is the right place to ask but can we have the alchemy created throwing potions use the throwers lvl instead of a preset lvl? Not sure how hard this would be to do but there completly useless atm and getting this message through on the normal forums is like pulling teeth. Thanks if you can look into it.


No. We will not be doing this. We do not want people using the level 1 potions at 75 becuase they are just as effective (for snare and stun at least, which they would be without other major changes)

At some point though we will be adding level 75 versions.


We got shafted again...
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Postby Kumeldar » Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:41 pm

On the bright side, there is a new discussion on the warrior boards about using the low level snare potions as an aggro tool. Even though the snare gets resisted it seems to work like a resisted cast spell, where you still get the aggro from it. So it could possibly be a nice bit of extra aggro for warriors, especially those that are pulling. Shaman just need to start pushing them as an aggro tool.
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