Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

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Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby Kidas52 » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:55 pm

Hello all,

I quit EQ during the introduction of Froglocks. Level 65 with 110 AAs. When i came back I was able to get PLd by some friends to level 80 and got a Qualitzi Sword and Fearless shield with full defiant armor + abtruste bp & bracers. I have been working on my Slay Undead AA's so that I can do some higher solo dps on undead. Mostly from plat farming in PoD and doing the undead in Direwind Cliffs (it seems pretty slow) currently have 4 levels in Slay Undead.

I was wondering what level is the most proficient to be at to earn the fastest amount of AA exp. In which zone that would be appropriate in, and which AA's i should focus on and achieve before leveling to max.

Also what is swarming exactly?
Saintz "Order of War" Level 89 almost 90 Paladin on the Drinal server. 1750 AAs defensive/Swarm based AA's
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby Brohg » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:09 pm

Swarming in the paladin context is just gathering up multiple (anywhere from "some" to "hordes of") light blue monsters (undead, obviously) and killing them all at once with Riposte while your self buffs and heals keep you alive. Your ability to exp this way efficiently depends mostly on survivability gained via AA. Besides the normal Combat Stability&Agility things, Double Riposte, Shield Block, and Shield Specialist AAs are keys. In contrast with more normal killin', Stuns & nukes won't do much.

At level 80, you should do very well in Ruins of Illsalin, but don't start with swarming. While your AA advance and you become intimate with all the new paladin things going on, can just crawl all around the zone pulling monsters with Nullify Magic. When your defensive AA have caught up to your level, swarming there can produce seriously dramatic exp. There are accounts around this forum of solo paladins clearing the zone in 3 pulls, for instance, though I've no idea what extraordinary heroics like that might entail. I think Ruins of Illsalin was still "the spot" through 85, but likely didn't go deeper than that.
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby Kidas52 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:08 am

Should i max slay undead or double riposte to up my 1v1 or 1v2 dmg?
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby Brohg » Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:17 am

Slay Undead will do more in both situations
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby shiftie » Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:43 am

I would have linked you a video showing what swarming is but apparently the person hosting it made it private for w/e reason.

So much for the tutorial aspect of it.
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby varutia » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:59 am

80 is a pretty good spot to AA, you got massively overpowered gear compare to the content you are doing. RoI good until 85, then Frostcrypt to 90, not good options at 95.

You will want to max both slay undead and double riposte, they are both extremely powerful and work well together, even for single mob damage if you are tanking.
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby Kidas52 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:58 pm

Well i was doing the undead in Direwind Cliffs, do you think i should to switch to RoI? I did go there i couldnt tell the different in exp, but one difference is if I get to many mobs i cant run away :P, i just die because the spiders summon.

Few problems I noticed, all my stats are maxed at 399 should i get the AAs that lets me go above that or focus on defense AAs. Also it seems like my slay undead is barely procing once a mob it is at 8 now and should be maxxed today, anyway i can increase its proc %? Also any of you guys on drinal?
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby Ughbash » Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:26 pm

Kidas52 wrote:Well i was doing the undead in Direwind Cliffs, do you think i should to switch to RoI? I did go there i couldnt tell the different in exp, but one difference is if I get to many mobs i cant run away :P, i just die because the spiders summon.

Few problems I noticed, all my stats are maxed at 399 should i get the AAs that lets me go above that or focus on defense AAs. Also it seems like my slay undead is barely procing once a mob it is at 8 now and should be maxxed today, anyway i can increase its proc %? Also any of you guys on drinal?

Do;t worry about buying stats, not much return for the investment.

Max Slay you can not increase proc rate, but you can get more swings with AA and Ferocity.

Max out defensive after you max out slay.
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby Kidas52 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:00 pm

So i shouldnt get any points in double reposte? Also i read in another post that level 86 is a sweet spot in RoI. Is that true? Or should i focus on AAs at level 80. I think the reason im not procing slay enough is because I am missing a lot of attacks.

Also if i have that 1hand and sheild. Should i just skip getting my 1.5 and 2.0 epic?
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby varutia » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:40 am

RoI is none viable after 86 due to mobs green out. However at 85 to 86 you actually run out of mobs to kill, so sweet spot is lower 80s really. As you are closer to the mob level and each kill gives more xp, at 85 to 86, you really need to swarm the place to make decent xp at RoI.

RoI is hell lot easier to travel to, pop the guild portal and it is only one zone away, you literlly get there under 1 minute. Mobs also more tightly packed in RoI compare to direwind, so less travelling and pulling time wasted.

If you are a returning 80 with most of aa capped out, by all means go up to 85-86 to grind out some new ones. If you got next to no aa, I'd stay at 80 and punch out some easy aa first.

Get double riposte as soon as possible just after maxing the slay. You can not increase the slay proc rate, it is a fixed percentage of your attack. So only way to get more slay is to swing more, which means things like double riposte, knight's advantage and speed of the knight. You oviously want max haste and get an overhaste item as well, then pop the holy forge during the xp session, that is only things you can do to maximize the slay rate.

Double riposte also gets better when you pick up more heroic dex, so it is a worthwhile investment in both short and long term game playing.

2.0 is still useful, but not as critical for us like some other classes, I'd personally still pick it up, but at a higher level when you can solo most of the encounters.
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby shiftie » Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:29 am

Things you can do to increase slay frequency - Increase swing rate.

Chanter haste - Hastening of Aransir Rk. II it has a 20% mod to triple attack.

Beastlord buff - Shared Brutal Ferocity Rk. II - has a 29% mod to triple attack (this one only lasts about 25 min but if you get it before you leave the lobby it will help you during your 30 min or so sessions gaining xp.

Tribute - there is a tribute that will give you +flurry chance and works even if you haven't spent any aa in tribute so long as you have gone to your guild master and put a point into triple attack.

Burst of power - this raises the cap on your triple attack.

Ranger predator buff - once you've maxed your double attack aa - this will put you near or at max.

Direwolf totem of battle is a quest you can do increase you can't get ranger buffs, it will improve your double attack rating while granting you a wolf familiar. The mod on this and ranger buff don't stack and this quest requires some faction work or some tricksy behavior with a rogue shroud. For your level not a bad investment of time and of course this is ever"quest" so there is fun to be had in the quest.

Flurry - this will give you the passive ability to flurry after a successful triple attack that stacks with the tribute value.

Tactical mastery - at level 85 you can begin to train this and it will allow you to strike through the mobs defenses, since slay is a fixed value of all attempts hit or miss striking through a parry/riposte/dodge can improve the frequency that you land a slay.

Knights return strike - this makes you immune to enrage while also allowing you to riposte with a bash each time you do a successful riposte - IE it will add a chance at an extra attack round, and while bash slay dps isn't that high every little bit helps.

as mentioned knights advantage/speed of the knight both increase swing frequency with a 2her

Things that improve combat against undead while improving mitigation

Shield block - this allows you an extra chance to avoid a combat round - if you do nothing else the first rank will help here.

Shield specialist - once you have shield block, most undead hunting can be done with a sword/shield at 85 because of the improvement to mitigation. With this AA you will bring your 1h dmg very close to your 2h dmg (dmg mod so effects slay). This allows you to have near 2her dps while gaining the advantage of shield block. This is the preferred set up (sword/shield) until you get one of the revamped 2hers (underfoot expansion and beyond). This is very important to paladin swarming.

Steadfast will - this allows you to avoid melee stuns and channel your spells better, improving your mana/spell efficiency, as well as helping you pull without getting stunned and destroyed.

When you pull remove your 1her so that you don't riposte a slay and send the mob into summoning mode until you get the pull to a safe location, the mobs in RoI have lower health and a good slay will certainly make them summon.

This is also why RoI is better than other zones b/c the lower health of mobs means more xp hits per x time period. They will die faster than direwinde/frostcrypt mobs. RoI is the premier place to hunt from 75-86, there is really no better zone for a paladin. If you can't handle multiple mobs at once - use your root (shackles of tunare) and zone geometry to aid you in pulling single mobs. This is at any rate good practice for pulling in general.
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby Elric » Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:03 am

Excellent post, Shiftee.
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby shiftie » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:51 am

Elric wrote:Excellent post, Shiftee.



thanks :)

Also, the video seems to be working today so here you go (click link for a vid of pal swarming).
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby Kidas52 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:33 pm

I agree very informative!!! The removing my weapon before pulling is something I used to do but totally forgot about :P.

I have a great 1 hander and sheild atm, my 1hand has higher dmg lower delay than my pally 2.0 epic, since i cannot access a lot of the lvl 85 AAs made for better sheild DPS, should i just focus on defensive AAs? Because i don't have a very good 2hand weapon. I only have 155 AAs right now, so I am agreeing with staying at this level and farming out some AAs.
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby varutia » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:15 am

I use tradeskill trophy when doing large swarming pulls.

Depend on what you do, if you solo most of time, just pick up whatever defensive aa you need to feel comfortable tanking content you are doing right now. Then do the offensive stuff, quicker the mobs die less the damage they do to you when soloing.
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby Kidas52 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:06 pm

Do 2 handers do more damage even if they have a slightly lower dmg/delay ratio than a 1 hander/sheild?
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby Brohg » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:04 pm

The only intrinsic difference is a higher damage bonus than 1h when they're over 27dly. Beyond that, the AA you have can alter which weapons are favored. Only Shield Specialist specifically boosts 1h damage. 2h can be boosted by Speed of the Knight and Knight's Advantage. Of note, Shield Specialist, since it's a multiplier, will affect Riposte damage, whereas the 2h AAs will just affect how much damage you get from yourself swinging.
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby varutia » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:12 am

Knight's advantage work on 1 hander now, they changed that a long while back. Unless your 2 hander got much better damage and delay ratio compare to your 1 hander, you almost always better off using sword and shield combo. The defensive natural of shield becomes more and more important as you level up.

At Underfoot or higher, knight two hander got a significant better ratio compare to 1 hander of same tier to offset this issue.
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby Brohg » Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:59 pm

varutia wrote:Knight's advantage work on 1 hander now, they changed that a long while back


sweet. learn something new every day
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby Kidas52 » Fri May 11, 2012 5:59 am

Ok i am at 732 AAs now staying at 86 for now because of the easy swarming in RoI.
Currently my AAs are

CS/CA 32/32
Dbl Reposte Max
Slay Undead Max
Sheild Block 8/15
BaleFire
Leap of Faith
Mnonetic Retention Maxxed
All of the PoP Tank AA's Maxed

And 3 lvls in the 3 healing AAs

What should I Focus on now? I am gathering AAs quite quickly and doing my old world progression in DoN, MPG, and SoD. I would really like to start tanking in Raids once I reach a certain point that I can level to 90 then 95.

Also when can I/should I start leveling to 91?

I also have full cultural armor and Extravagant 2-hander and 1-hander.
Last edited by Kidas52 on Fri May 11, 2012 7:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby Kidas52 » Fri May 11, 2012 6:14 am

shiftie wrote:
Elric wrote:Excellent post, Shiftee.



thanks :)

Also, the video seems to be working today so here you go (click link for a vid of pal swarming).


How did you do that? I could at max without using LoH or Discs pull a section of the arena bleachers with the two isslidian's.
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby Ughbash » Fri May 11, 2012 7:28 am

Kidas52 wrote:
shiftie wrote:
Elric wrote:Excellent post, Shiftee.



thanks :)

Also, the video seems to be working today so here you go (click link for a vid of pal swarming).


How did you do that? I could at max without using LoH or Discs pull a section of the arena bleachers with the two isslidian's.


Shiftie was VERY WELL GEARED and Max AA. Plus had a lot of practice.
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby Kidas52 » Sun May 13, 2012 5:04 am

delete
Last edited by Kidas52 on Sun May 13, 2012 5:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby Kidas52 » Sun May 13, 2012 5:04 am

Ok i am at 880 AAs now staying at 86 for now because of the easy swarming in RoI.
Currently my AAs are

CS/CA 32/32
Dbl Reposte Max
Slay Undead Max
Sheild Block 8/15
Armor of Wisdom 6/15
Knights Advantage 3/6
Blessing of Life 3/15
BaleFire
Leap of Faith
Mnonetic Retention Maxxed
All of the PoP Tank AA's Maxed

And 3 lvls in the 3 healing AAs

What should I Focus on now? I am gathering AAs quite quickly and doing my old world progression in DoN, MPG, and SoD. I would really like to start tanking in Raids once I reach a certain point that I can level to 90 then 95.

Also when can I/should I start leveling to 91?

I also have full cultural armor and Extravagant 2-hander and 1-hander.
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby varutia » Sun May 13, 2012 7:37 am

You really need make a magelo profile, aa advice is very difficult without one. If you do intend to raid, plan to crank out those defensive aa before signing up. That means all ranks of cs/ca, shield block etc. For raiders I recommend defensive, healing and follow by dps aa. Personally I'd probably get about 1.5k to 2k aa around 90 before moving on, if you got ready grouping options that does not require you to tank really tough stuff. If you plan to still solo mostly for the time being, get the dps aa out first like maxing knight's advantage etc.

Oveall speaking what you aa to get will largely depend on your play style and near future options, raiding, grouping etc. Another good things to do while you still relative low level is to camp the ac augs, you will need them later and may as well get it while the aug dropping mobs still worth some xp. You seriously do not want to be at 90 plus and going back to RSS to farm the augs.
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby Kidas52 » Sun May 13, 2012 8:35 am

Here is my Magelo.
http://eq.magelo.com/profile/2346598

Just made it today =). I have access to a great guild, I also can solo very well in RoI now. I can tank everything in HoT Cy including names, all yellows in the grounds, but the names in the grounds are very difficult.

I also have no clue what augs to get, i saw the AC aug list in the other forum but it looks a little outdated.
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby Agraza » Mon May 14, 2012 2:05 am

I've just been picking out easy ones on this list to go camp. I'm not very picky atm as I often have some crap defiant or hot zone aug in the slot before I get one of these.

http://raidloot.com/Search.aspx?page=1& ... view=Table

Obviously some are more suited for tanking than others (hDex/hAgi), and there are good augs outside of HoT (which this search is filtered to). I think in a month or so the L90 revamp for crushbone and permafrost will go live and they both have AC augs in them too.
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby Kidas52 » Fri May 18, 2012 4:28 pm

Which AAs should i get?
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby Aragir Lancot » Sun May 20, 2012 7:49 pm

You should get:

Defensive AA's:
As much of Combat Agility and Combat Stability as you can get.
Armor of the Inquisitor (as much as you can get at your level)
Armor of Wisdom (again, as much as you can get at your level)
Blessing of Life
Healing Gift
Healing Adept
Hand of Piety
Lay Hands
Shield Block

Offensive AA's:
All of slay undead (and the prerequisite)
Shield Specialist
Speed of the Knight
Knights Advantage
Knights Return Strike
Flurry
Double Riposte
Destructive Fury

Not in that order. Get those AA's in the order that helps you the most at the moment. After you have those (assuming you are not yet level 90), then you can do what you want.
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby Kidas52 » Fri May 25, 2012 10:26 pm

Why armor of the inquis? its got a 15min cd
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby shiftie » Fri May 25, 2012 11:41 pm

Because until higher levels when the cool down timer is reduced and even then out of the habit that you will/should build. Armor of the inquisitor will almost always be paired with your tank disc that iirc begins at level 56 Guard of piety that also shares a 15 min cool down. This is your main tanking disc that usually follows deflection when named tanking in groups or raids, that is if the mob lives long enough to need both. At higher levels the disc gets improved and gains a bit in % mitigation.

Anyhow... The two are always paired b/c armor of inquisitor adds a healing mod and ac. At the highest rank it improves ac by 435 and incoming heals by 58%. This healing mod stacks with first spire and epic, and with spell casting reinforcement it lasts for quite a while.

When you pair the two at max level you boost your ac by 435, improve all heals that land on you by 58% and then mitigate all hits by 35% for 561900 which will proc a 16k heal on you when it fades after 1 minute or if all the damage is absorbed. When Prominent mantle fades you hit armor of zeal for a 20% vie for 249500 with a chance to proc when struck by an enemy a stun for 1 sec with a dd of 1422 and a heal of 2020. And that is the main order of discs when tanking though sometimes switched up depending on the situation.

Armor of the inquisitor is one of our main tanking boons, mostly b/c of the heal mod. Since it boosts blessing of life, healing light, almost all of the heals we cast on ourselves. If you haven't figured it out by now paladins mitigate damage by active and passive healing. If you aren't learning how to do this you are doing it wrong and will suffer later in levels when you can't stun things.
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby Kidas52 » Sat May 26, 2012 5:23 am

Thanks for the explanation =), right now I dont really need discs to tank names but I see how that would help greatly when i start tanking in raids. And u just gave me a reason to start maxing healing light also!
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby shiftie » Sat May 26, 2012 11:43 pm

you aren't pushing hard enough then.

Also, that isn't just for named tanking, it is the basis for multi mob tanking and a part of swarming.
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Re: Old Pop Paladin totally lost with all the new content lvl 80

Postby Kidas52 » Sun May 27, 2012 4:28 am

Yea ive been using it when we get extra adds and i have to aoe taunt and tank them. Already maxxed healing light and finishing armor now, then I'm just gonna use this dbl exp oppurtunity to get to 91.

When i made this post I was level 65 and had left at the end of the PoP expansion with only about 100AAs. So you have to know that a lot of this skillset with all these new AAs was extremely new to me based on the EQ that I am used to. Thats why I am asking all these questions. Ive been playing games like LoL for awhile now where u only get 5 spell options :P. So if I sound stupid its because I am there are so many new things to learn especially being a paladin and a tank.
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