HP/AC question

[Micker]

I am currently at just about 4600ac and 19.5khps unbuffed. I have been an AC ho, but I feel my hps might be lagging now. I am not really going to be raiding much now(no time), so I will be mostly tanking group level mobs. Not sure how the new expansion is going to be. I have several high (165ish)hp augs in the bank. Should I switch out some ac augs for hp augs to balance my hp/ac better?? I am pretty happy with the ac route, but not sure if adding more hps would benefit me more. Would you switch out a 20ac aug for a 165hp aug??

[Khauruk]

It wouldn't be crazy to make that swap, but I'd wait and see. I'm guessing your AC will still trivialize group content for SoD and you'll be sitting pretty the whole way or most of it.

[shiftie]

I wouldn't really call it a hp/ac debate more of an ac/mana thing (i'm not discounting hp gains). Given the ways with which we now mitigate damage having a decently high mana pool can help you just as much as having that extra hp or ac. Your ability to cast one or 2 more burst/aurora spells could be the difference depending on how you play your toon. I wouldn't replace a 20 ac aug for a 165 hp aug unless I was sitting right on the next cap where a tad more ac won't make a difference. If the augs you are referencing are hp only - then I wouldn't worry about it too much but if you could put in a few 165 hp/mana then by all means go for it. Again it all depends on how you choose to play your toon. This question will never be answered unless a dev steps up and says one is better than the other.

cheers,
shiftie

[Nodden]

I would switch the 20 ac aug to a better ac aug.

[riou]

You could prob gain another 1-200 ac without moving your hp up much(that is your hp isn't "lagging" yet), seeing as you got a 20 ac aug, looks like you dont have the "best" ac augs in game, can always work on them, also AC > All, dont trade any for hp(or atleast anything sub 1:10 ratio heh)

[Normy]

LOL, these topics always amuse me. There is no right ratio for hp to ac. None, notta, zip, zilch. The debate has raged forever, with all kinds of numbers and math thrown in and supposed situations.

Heres about the closest to a "right" answer as you will find. Guage it off what you are running into. You have a rather high AC, but your HP seems more than fine for nearly any groupable content. I lean more toward AC myself, but I like HP as well. If you find yourself running out of HP rapidly (unlikely) then try swapping some out and finding how you feel then. The cost of swapping augs isn't that great these days.

Odds are, you'll be able to handle most groupable content for the next expansion as well with that setup, but again, the proof is only what you yourself run into.

[riou]

It's true every mob would differ in "ratio", general ratios are used to "compare" gear, if you dont use a ratio what would you consider for trade-offs between ac and hp?

would you lose 10 ac for 10 hp , 50 hp, 100 hp, 150 hp?
if you answer to any of those you're using a ratio.


I can see from your aug choices you're sitting at somewhere around 1:3-4, that is not leaning to ac ; )

[Normy]

I have no idea what this has to do with mobs. When comparing gear, I look at the total gear. I generally don't take an upgrade unless its an upgrade across the board. Although I have taken a 1ac loss here and there for a 90-110 hp increase. I guess you can call that a ratio.

And yes, I do lean toward AC by not taking all the HP augs that I could and using them. That doesn't mean I use only AC augs, but I do tend to collect some of the best ones I have access to. I don't impose a strict rule, generally my HP augs also come with other effects or mod2's save but 1, and I'll likely change that with a raid aug when I have the chance. I do consider the mana as well when considering augs, I am frequently healing on raids and tend to need it alot.

So I strike a balance that works for me. Its personalized to how I play my character. This is all I suggest to others. Following others rules for how you should aug or gear won't work because you won't play your character the same way, and the role of a paladin can vary from person to person. If I find myself seeing high spike damage from mobs that I'm offtanking, I'll start boosting my AC again. If I see myself being drained too much by DoTs or AE's then I'll look into my HP again. I constantly keep an eye on my mod2's and go for what I feel I'm lacking. If someone else comes in and tells me I'm doing it all wrong, I can politely point out the success I've had and the people willing to follow me where ever I will lead them.

The point is, find what works for you. There is no manual to follow step by step. Anyone insisting they have the absolute truth is the same as preaching religion. Just more beliefs.

[frocus]

I tend to try and go with only ac augs unless im noticing in the areas ive moved into for grouping or soloing that aes or spell effects from the mobs are hurting me then ill drop a few hp augs as long as im still tanking ok for the melee portions of the fight. Allthough my gear is far lower quality than yours heh.

[olts]

well, the debate is old - and ac always won as for the augs: what i did to keep ac and hp in balance was hunting as many ac and hp augs as possible. there are more in the game now than you can ever use - and many of them are easy to get. others of course are rare and some only drop in raids. check galelors ac aug list (its a sticky) for inspiration. also if ya can post a magelo and tell us what ya raiding atm when ya have the time - we might be able to point ya in the right direction.

beside that: 19,5k hp unbuffed is nowhere lagging in my eyes. it is easily enough to tank crystallos, especially if ya have 4.6k ac and the tank 2mods maxed. what i assume ya have. i cant tell if 19,5k will do in sod, but id assume it will last a while there too.

c.

[Bonzz]

I think, long ago, it was the rangers (their boards) who figured out that 1 AC was about equal to 6HP in benefit.

I have heard many argue that this no longer holds true, but I have always used that as a guide in choosing if an item is an upgrade or not and it has worked well for me. I have often managed to survive as a tank better than people with much higher AC and/or HP too (but not necessarily better than those with better AC and HP), to inlcude Warriors and SK's.

ANyway, it works by convertign the AC to HP and comparing the total between the items.

Example, 1 item is 10 AC and 50 HP and the item you have is 130 HP only.

10 AC x 6 = 60 HP, plus the 50 HP give that item a value of 110. It is 20 HP short of being an upgrade over the 130 HP only item.

Make sense?

If you don't have that much confidence in the ratio and feel more at ease with AC, just up the ration to 1 AC = 7 HP or more.

Or if you feel more at ease with the HP, adjust it down to AC = 5 HP or less.

[Arny]

In your situation it really has to be AC all the way. If you are only doing group content then any extra hp is going to do absolutely nothing for you, buffed you are going to be way passed what a cleric can heal you for and logicaly any hp over that is wasted, unless the cleric has a habit of falling asleep/going afk on incoming :p.

On the other hand every sincle point of AC helps you tank a little better and never goes to waste!

[Normy]

[Wanyen]

The linear relationship is easy, and failing any other consideration is a generally good rule of thumb. As it stands, 1 AC = 6 hp was probably most true for less recent content subject to lower AC softcaps and level limits on AAs (this was suggested as early as Velious when trivial decisions such as whether to go with the higher AC Kael armor, or to go with the Hp/Mana ToV/Skyshrine armor). I sort of remember when this relationship was first suggested -- it varied depending on your armor type, and presumably because of certain skill caps, for instance for tank classes, it was 1:6, for chain it was 1:5 (AC:Hp).

I would guess that with a much higher AC softcap in the later expansions and greater potential in AA development of defensive skills that the exchange rate of hitpoints per AC has improved further in favor of AC. From initial information of those in SoD, it sounds like the value of AC isn't going away with extremely streaky hits in even the more trivial, entry area content.

[Normy]

This newest expansion is designed with hard hitting mobs, that is for sure. I buffed up to 4700+ AC, and would still get hit with spikes of 3-4 attacks over 3k of damage. This was in Field of .... something, don't know all the zone names yet, but the content was dark blue occasionally, white (at 81) and yellow. Wasn't a big difference in hitting power except I could chain stun the DB mobs more.