lesson of contrition - do you use it, at all?

[Hulkling]

Last beta I suggested increasing the knockback to 10 or 15 and adding a root component to it. Some liked it, some didn't, chanters got pissy, then we debated strong roots and duration and such. Nothing came of it (obviously), but then again not much came of any suggestions we made for spells lol.

[Peaky]

[dindaur]

aye brohg, got any non-spoilerish examples to share, i'm as curious as peaky, genuinely

[Brohg]

I don't think anything meaningful. Strats, even totally successful ones, vary from guild to guild. It's even down to trash, though. If there's a shout to split up mobs, or get shit in a corner, or out of it, that shout is intended for the paladins to hear and act on.

[Khael]

Like someone said though, we're hardly the class that's best suited for that anymore.

If a mob is mez'd, chanters can move it on their own. If it isn't, warriors can move it a hundred times easier than us.

[dindaur]

thanks for tossing that up brohg

i know his guild is a fairly efficient one, if they are doing it with paladins its probably because it speeds things up in some way

you could compare the two with paladins helping it along versus not helping it along, the mob would definately move faster with more help.

i agree with khael that this is not a primary role or the best way to achieve desired result. i can see brohg's benefit.

[Brohg]

I could well be an anachronism in our SOP, enchanters have only had their ability since SoF. It's worth observing, though, that theirs is one heck of a punt, not just a shove.

[Hulkling]

[dindaur]

monks have had knockback for years

[Hulkling]

oh yeah guess they have...Luclin to be exact. Well, they still suck at it...at least our monks do lol

[dindaur]

my monk friend is good at it, but i dont know about the general nameless population of monks, dont pickup often

[Rihard]

One thing to point out: Discontinuing this spell line would not decrease our ability to KB mobs in any way. Nothing would stop us from memming an older spell on the line and using it to KB still. The only difference is that the stun cap level would no longer go up.

[dindaur]

the question is, does sony intend this to be a niche use spell - which would justify the lack of use it's current design encourages

or does sony want this to be a regularly used part of the lineup - in which case it would need a redesign

brought up this thread in guild - paladin chat.
came up with a few things.

a) knockback
- there is a difference between aa/stun and contrition. a difference of 2 units.
- we had a suggestion of offering an upgrade to the aa/stun (knockback) in the form of additional units of knockback.
- regarding frequency of use of KNOCKBACK, we had varied responses, some did not use it at all, others used it every day. KNOCKBACK is useful.

b) akera
- akera's use was primarily a tag stun, and not a stun that was used to generate aggro. initiate, not generate. perhaps build would be a better word than generate.
- the aa-stun seems to be not generating as much aggro as akera ( it's listed as 100 less, but performing more like half or worse as effective, perhaps this needs testing / looking into, to see how AA-stun compares to Akera when tagging off a bard, stpauli's test )
- if the aa-stun was able to generate aggro *properly and in practice acted like an akera THEN the aa stun could be called the replacement.

[StPauli]

[dindaur]

[Peaky]

[Ughbash]

[Khael]

Funny you should mention resists, seeing as Grappling Strike is -1000 and Divine Stun is -50 (not to mention Contrition line, which is sitting at -30).

The days of Paladins being the master of push have come and gone. We're not even in the same league as monks/warriors/chanters/shamans anymore. Sure, when a mob is climbing a wall I'm still gonna turn my back to it and hit Divine Stun. Usually my efforts are in vain though.

[Ughbash]

[dindaur]

contrition: 24 second recast time

also just for infos sake, grappling strike has 5 units of kb

[Normy]

I know this thread has been ignored for a month now, but hey, new to me.

I am pretty much only playing on raids these days. During raids, I will occasionally bring this spell up for chain stun, or when I know I'll need heavy agro. As far as I can tell, nothing else a paladin can do for agro will out-pace the rate of agro that 5 stuns back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back can give us.

On stunnable mobs, I can lock up a mob for 20+ seconds taking no damage.

On any other occasion (which is most of the time) I only have 2 stuns up, and Lesson is not one of them. It is the last stun to be memmed, and the first to be dropped.

[shiftie]

contrition comes in handy to solo the golems for crystallos key haha I guess you can call that a use =P actually any mob that is DB or even can be soloed by adding this spell into the mix if the mobs resist rate isn't insanely high. However, I think we are forgetting one vital use of the DD/knockback. Root pulling... When you are splitting camps and don't want to mem dispell to break your own root for positioning purposes. If you are hunting something other than undead and have no other nukes, so long as it doesn't get resisted the contrition line will almost always break the root on the parked mob.

Don't forget that when a shaman VP's a mob that it is rooted heavily. If you want to pull it to the group then you can drop SoT overtop the VP. It will overwrite it and then contrition will easily break the root. Thus giving us our only real shot at breaking the root since we wouldn't want to use dispell as the shaman is likely to have already slowed the mob.

As far as push is concerned you can still use the aa stun and contrition together for a considerable push. I don't think that the dev's are concerened with push as its primary function such that it is used for positioning and naming this as the reason for keeping it as is. Flame of light is our only dd outside of the contrition line to break those roots etc and it is not really valid for this purpose. The dd component has its purpose and so does the push. If they try to separate those 2 things then you will have to mem an extra spell unless they upgrade the aa stun which we can only hope that they will do. I'd love to have a punt like enc/mag/sham/war/monk... but with all those classes capable of that ability we should probably focus on some sort of upgrade or different ability all together and let them leave contrition alone.

side notes:

I still dream of ae aggro - give me this and I'll forget all about contrition and the linking of akera.

I also think the "group" paladin should be grateful that the ancient line is now store bought - if he intended to stun lock a mob previously he "had" to use the contrition line as the ancient was out of reach. It is give and take.

All that aside - there was no reason for the spell link on akera and I agree wholeheartedly that they should be on different timers still. For all purposes considered they have/had different uses for a VERY long time.


shiftie

[Brohg]

You can't dispel slows.

[Khael]

[Vasei]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but he said shaman specifically - are there non-disease-counter shaman slows?

[Unmei]

[Zorbee]

Answer to OP post #1.

1. High cast time
2. Slow, slow refresh
3. High mana cost

(The KB doesn't bother me, I like that I have a spell that can move mobs -- should I desire -- without buying AA junk spells that cost a million AA, the problem is the slow refresh and high cast time so that I only use the spell if mobs are getting stuck in walls.)