Frontal AE Agro?

[knytul]

http://www.antonius-bayle.org/kumbaja/s ... &history=1

Already some warriors are having a hayday with this....Hulkling, can you maybe give us a lil more info on what is actually going on here?

[Hulkling]

Sorry, I'm under NDA

On a completely 100% non-relatied topic, a lot of times new spells and AAs go into the database prior to Beta for the next expansion.

[dindaur]

so has the uh beta begun?

[Brohg]

No, he has information from the Community Leader program. He's leading your community, didn't you know that Dindaur?

[Normy]

Well, that looks nice, but I highly doubt it'll make it live. Call it my jaded outlook on things. Still, in that form I could put that to good use. But considering how well things have gone for us spell wise, I expect it to be swapped out for a group hp/ac buff that will last 1 hour and be equal to the level 70 cleric spell but a different name.

[dindaur]

[Brohg]

The new Community Leader program isn't about communication. That was the supposed role of the now-defunct Class Correspondent program. You're mixing up the two.

[Hulkling]

no beta hasn't started yet. Everyone will know when SOE announces it (no I don't have a date).

and since people are bad at taking hints ...Yes thats a pally AA slated for next expansion.

[Thebobo]

Make it a true AE increase the hate x 2 and call it a day~

[Hulkling]

I dunno, I'm kinda liking the concept of the cone thang. Yes the range can be very dangerous if you are not careful, but it can also have some very nice applications if used right.

And yeah 1000 hate ain't a whole lot. I'm curious what the recast will be.

[dindaur]

here is one guarentee. it wont be longer than 12 hours.

[Ghirador]

[knytul]

yeah i wouldnt lock down on that 100%. I had a good long talk w/ Prathun shortly afterwards. Sent him some information that it seems he wasnt knowledgable in. Hes gonna talk to Nodyin when E3 is over about that as well as a few of our other things, like Aurora of Morrow for example.

[dindaur]

well, we have ae aggro. we dont have a convenient spell coded for the purpose but we do have methods that get us there. so... what does prathun have to say about that, heh. our own spells get us ae aggro. if they really want shadowknights to be the sole knight with access to ae aggro shouldnt they nerf what we have then? perhaps then they can open the door for some other ability? who knows. but... i dont think they're wanting to nerf what ae aggro we do have, they just are content giving sk's the method they have and letting paladins get away with heh getting ae aggro anyway whether they have a coded spell for it or not =p. wonder if they are aware that paladins can ae aggro many mobs with just heals.

i dont know, they just dont put out enough statements about heal aggro as a form of aggro when it gets used by me any time we have multiple mobs. on the other hand they seem to put lots of attention on sk ae aggro. for devs themselves to talk as if paladins dont have currently any method to generate aggro seems to show they have little understanding of their own game in this specific aspect.

the decision to give sk's a unique ability that happens to be ae aggro is fine with me. the decision to pretend as if paladins do not have what they really do is disgusting. it will only lead to problems down the road. if they want to make ae aggro a class specific thing among the knights, they need to make some changes. and then, of course, i'd be expecting a boost in another area. because that would be an ability axed. but, it needs to be kept honest, and if they want sk's being the only knight with ae aggro they have changes to make heh.

easy way to do it is adding some kind of mod on paladin heals ( specifically ) burst probably but perhaps all of them that reduce the aggro generated. these spells only really become the sole tool of aggro when a paladin is trying to ae aggro.

until they either nerf paladin aggro - ae generation into oblivion or they recognize it is a genuine tactic used by players and should be supported by the dev team, im going to be quite disappointed with this issue.

[Normy]

I disagree Dindaur, although not completely.

We do have a sort of gimp AE agro with our heals, this has been well noted and is something I use to my advantage as well. If we get jumped by multiple mobs during a raid, one of the first things I will do is group heal and usually follow up with clicky group heal. This will put at least a few mobs on me if another tank isn't already agroing.

However, this is not a true AE agro. The difference is if our group members do not have agro on mobs, then it generates no agro for ourselves. Since I primarily raid, this makes a pretty big difference to me. A good example is the first AG north event. For those that don't know, it requires a large number of decent hitting mobs to be kited around while the main raid kills select rooted mobs.

During this event, the SK's really shine, and them and several warriors will build a large chunk of a train. Not a problem, unless one of them gets summoned and killed or a bad stun or whatever, then suddenly there are a lot loose. The hardest part is pulling mobs off clerics (obviously) and shammies (not so obvious). A burst heal on a shammy will not overcome slow agro, and usually a stun or two is needed. I can take some beating, so I can stop and cast stuns on several before I have to run or take a death, but nothing like what sk's and warriors can do.

What I don't understand is why AE agro is a "class defining" line for SK's. What level do they get that line at? Their first AE agro is level 69, so before that they aren't SK's? Don't get me wrong, I have no problems with them having the ability, but since they already share it with warriors then it isn't class-defining. Looking at their spells and abilities, what defines them is their DPS while still being a tank. So fix their harm touch, make it more usable and more frequently, bump up their weapon procs and DPS spells, and give the only remaining tank class the same ae agro ability.

[Thebobo]

As it stand 1000 hate and the recast time on it is worthless in todays game.
I would say NO to a version like that as it would effect any single target hate potential.

I would be happy with balancing our single target agro. While once at the top is now the lowest. How did we loose that ?

Most inportantly a single SK AE agro hate value should not be above our highest single target hate value as it is now. How that was allowed happened is beyond me

Allow us to get back some of our single target snap agro we had back in the days when we could reliably save casters/healers form range.

Do that and I think AE hate would be a null issue

[Normy]

2 second recast useless?

As for the 1k hate, I doubt that is set in stone right now. Rarely is the actual amount of hate read correctly by various tools.

[Hulkling]

the recast listed in the spell date for AAs is not the actual in game recast (this is the issue they had with HoP, LoH and other heal AAs that used the spell data recast in the +healing amount formula). The actual in-game recast for AAs isn't available on Lucy, we'll have to test this one.

So I'm curious as to what recast time Thebobo is referring to. You have information to share? lol

[shiftie]

If you really want aggro on that AG event - just bide a little time and start casting heals on the SK that is using his/her ae aggro. You'll generate enough hate to kite at least half of the mobs, just wait till the sk pauses to cast ae hate and when his health drops to 70 on that pause use burst and ae aggro is yours. After that just keep getting hit and healing yourself, make sure the healers aren't healing you or they will eff up your aggro.

cheers

[knytul]

[shiftie]

I wasn't saying it should be used for AE snap aggro - he cited an instance where the sk dies and then other people get aggro, I was merely giving a way to end up with aggro on half to all of the mobs should the sk die. It is a way to generate ae aggro but I still want a spell for ae aggro. In places where mobs split, which is becomming more of a regularity through expansions in group content (excluding sky) it is beneficial to not be falling behind wars and sk's in this department.

ae aggro for sk's is Class defining that is a load of bs...
shiftie

[Thebobo]

[Hulkling]

[Normy]

Meh, I don't claim any special knowledge, just going by what was linked.

I don't know enough about the actual hate amounts generated for each spell in relation to what SK's have, how much lower are our single target stun hate spells than the SK's AE? And what is their recast on things?

As for needing an improvement, sure I'll aways take an improvement, but I would like some AE ability like what is listed here. It still isn't really AE, since its frontal cone based, but if it has that limitation then maybe the hate needs to be a bit higher.

At least it shows that someone is paying attention to our class, even it they don't have it perfect yet.