W/SoT Balance Discussion

[Tanom]

Can we toss these spell lines in the bank of never to be used again now?? it is obvious that the devs do not want to seriously working on the tank's nor the priest's version we might as well go on as we have for the past months.

[Abazzagorath]

[Abazzagorath]

[Abazzagorath]

[Normy]

But but but... it was proven by some warriors that it was a permanent 50-60pct damage mitigation and made paladins the preferred tanks above and beyond all others.. /sobs for the poor downtrodden warriors (who can now DPS all mobs about as well as we can DPS undead mobs with slay )

Of course, by proven, I mean various self-serving parses were twisted and tweaked with a skill most politicians are in awe of and posted with long, useless arguments that distorted facts, repeated the same concepts over and over regardless of absurdity, and were paired with a bunch of number crunching mumbo-jumbo crap to make it appear as whatever they wanted it to be.

Somewhere in the long proofs, there is mathematical proof of god, the flying spaghetti monster, and a tiny flying teacup that controls thoughts. But, I digress. In a very small way, I guess I'm glad this spell got the surprise buttsecks rather than our slay ability, although that is next on the list if its left up to the hate mongering folks.

[knytul]

"it was proven by some warriors"......................HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

[Thyr]

people still use wot or it's upgrade? after they nerfed it the first time or two it became another worthless spell that got burried at the end of my spell book, with all the other spells I only got for spellbook completeness.

I can duo just fine in ship, steam, and mmm with my shambot. the high end paladin is capable of getting along just fine without this spell. the only people sony is nerfing are the mid to low level paladin that they claim to be trying to bring back to the game.

simply the decay of the game after 9+ years. just waitfor the next expansion and all the gear you just spent a year raiding for will become worthless because even a casual player will be able to group for gear that good. starting to look like time for retirement.

[Normy]

I still have it memmed most of the time. But I sometimes forget to use it. I'm one of those people that will use just about everything I can for a small bump in AC or damage mitigation. But since I actively forget to use it most of the time, its a great big /meh.

When I have to swap my spell setup for an additional cure of something that isn't typical for me to have ready, I drop WoT first now. I would even be willing to go with all the sheer number of nerfs and low proc rate if they would increase the total allowed number of procs, left it at roughly 6-8 a minute, but gave it like a 30 min duration so I wouldn't have to recast it so damn often.

But then it might be slightly usable, and worthy of another nerf. How silly of me.

[Carmaris]

Speaking as one of those mid to low level paladins Sony's trying to bring back, I won't be indifferent to a WoT nerf...in fact, it'll probably keep me from renewing my account once the free time is up.

While I haven't had much chance to explore new zones yet (coming back after an 18 month+ break), right now the only exp mobs I know I can solo semi-efficiently at 75 are all light blue (arcstone undead & infected paw)...and the semi-efficiency is only due to WoT. Without WoT, I'll still be able to solo, but I doubt I'd be able to make it all the way through a single Lessons without having to med at least once.

[Bruennor]

WoT has already been nerfed into nothingness almost. On light blues you will be lucky to see many procs at all, at least I haven't. What this thread is about is the fact that another change to wot may nerf it even more, by forcing the procs to go 10 seconds between proc'ing, or something like that. Not at all sure how it works exactly since I don't play on test.

[Hulkling]

[dindaur]

on anything i feel is capable of killing me i use tunare.

[Tanthoris]

Main times I use WoT/SoT is in SoF zones for named mobs just for the added boost in AC. Otherwise I dont find any real use for it even when soloing unless I am soloing somewhere and wind up with about 4 adds and once again I am only using it for the AC boost. The heal proc is okay, but I find I proc Blessing of Life more then I do WoT/SoT

[Normy]

[tauaunt]

lol norm,
sad thing is you are probably right!

[knytul]

just by looking at the numbers, im not seeing this as an increase to us at all...but one thing that does stand out is 4 procs a min (1 every 15 seconds) which puts it at a total of 12 procs for the whole duration (since it lasts 3 minutes). Compared to the 24 we are getting now.

[Finori]

[Carmaris]

[Bruennor]

WoT no longer procs off low lv's. Its proc rate goes lower and lower depending on the con of the mob, so you do get procs off reen and light blue, they are just low. Take on dark blues, proc isnt too bad, but the spell no longer takes advantage of our healing adept lines, so where wot used to heal for 400ish base with the adept aa's, it now heals considerably less. So it has been nerfed a good bit =p. Oh, its amount of procs per spell were lowered a literal ton as well. This doesnt hurt people using it on singles as much as it hurts people who have more than 1 mob on em.

If the change goes through, the spell will become entirely worthless on more than one mob. It may heal more in the long run, but, well, go read up on the new stats.

[Carmaris]

Yeah, I recalled last night that healing focus/AA used to work on WoT and don't anymore. Which is bogus...still works on lifetap procs.

Ah well, we'll have to see if they nerf it. If so, I'll most likely be saving $15 a month.

[Silmare]

I dont use it for the heal. The heal value was essentially lost with the first nerf. Now I use it regularly for the indirect ae aggro that the heal proc provides. As they are reducing the amount of procs.. this will reduce the amount of aggro I can obtain from it.

Which is irritating.

[Ashramm Damodred]

I'm curious why don't they just rename the spell yaulp or holler and be done with it, since that's what it's usefulness has turned into, a longer duration yaulp.

[varutia]

Old WoT is really awesome at 70, but I personally find it's usefulness falls off after that. I still mem it since the healing ratio per mana spend is not too bad, but I only fight singles when soloing now.

The good old days of at 70 training the entire undead castle at hole is really fun for me, I racked up a couple hundred aa there, by far the quickest xp I have done ever.

[knytul]

this new Tunare is stil just as worthless as the one we had last week...now it takes up another slot on the Songs box...

[Normy]

I'm actually really suprised on this.

Not sure what folks are complaining about this time, but both WoT and SoT just got a boost as far as i could tell.

To test, I went to Arcstone to find a mob that I knew couldn't kill me unless I let it. Light blue con undead mob, one that a week ago I would not have seen WoT proc more than twice on. Over the course of a 2 minute fight (unequipped my weapon for a while to increase the fight time) I got 14 procs.

Thinking it was a fluke, I did it again, and again, and again. I averaged 7 procs a minute on each mob. I switched to SoT and tried that out, and got very similar results plus the occasional additional bonus of the extra tick of healing. All against light blues. I then pulled 3 LB to try it out, and SoT kept me healed because it was procing often enough from 3 mobs hitting me. Combine that with my blessing of Life AA line, and I was actually in good shape.

Against even, yellow, and red con mobs, I've noticed alot more procs than before as well. It might not allow someone to pull 30+ mobs and kill them anymore, but this has been increased by quite a bit. Only thing I am disappointed about so far is that I hear the HoT potions won't stack with the SoT effect in the song window. That needs to be changed.

[Carmaris]

I haven't noticed stacking issues with WoT and heal potions, but then I haven't actually been looking for any problems. Will pay closer attention my next solo grind.

That said, WoT's effectiveness appears to have actually increased. Single pull in arcstone and it keeps my life up better than previously; double pulls and it actually handles most of the healing for me.

I suppose it's possible they broke the nerf, but if this is how it's intended to be, I can't complain.

[dindaur]

if tunare hot doesnt stack with lassitude it should stack with potion hot

[shiftie]

SoT recourse does not stack with Lass - but Reptile does this needs to be fixed so that either SoT and WoT also stack or so reptile does not... other wise it makes using SoT less useful than reptile I didn't notice it not stacking with heal potions or any other HoT.

[Hulkling]

[Hulkling]

[shiftie]

I saw it happening last night while goofing in Lguk. The red buff icon that goes into the short term buff/bard window appeared for both lass/reptile. Everytime lass proc'd i kept getting the spell will not take hold message when the SoT recourse tried to proc. I had a druid in group and he cast reptile on me because he didn't even know about the WoT line. Anyhow with both lass and reptile on the recourse buff icons popped up into the short term window for both buffs.

[Hulkling]

ohhhhh so WoT buff and Reptile buff won't stack, so we can't even try to see if thier HoTs stack. But Lass buff and WoT buffs stack, but Lass HoT overwrites SoT HoT. that right?

[Pethdor]

2 nerfs in 1 patch arent we on a roll!!

[Hulkling]

[shiftie]

I had a bard in group also and I had the bard mana/hp regen - lass recourse - and reptile recourse all in the buff window... I ran my cursor over them to verify it because I was kinda stunned and pissed all at the same time. I'll check again tonight and see if i can't recreate the situation and I'll get back on it as it stands i'm 99% sure;after you said the dev tested it you're making me doubt myself =P

[Hulkling]

yes yes please do!

[Hulkling]

changed the name of the topics for both WoT threads. If ya wanna discuss balance, this is the thread. If ya wanna figure out exactly how it works then the other thread is where we need to read/post.

Gonna do the same thing with the 43 topics about Hand of Piety.

[Jarcey Heyokah]

Several things about langour line of spell... as stated above the slow proc in the spell doesnt continue too slow a mob everytime the spell proc's. If it did then eventually a mob wouldnt even be swinging. This slow doesnt stack w/ Shaman slow's, nor does the heal EVER crit. The slow proc does help w/ agro on several mobs at once.
Actually imho your a hybrid... 3/4 warrior and 1/4 cler, shamans are 100% priest class, yet your heals are on par w/ shaman's. Sure sure give me the aurgument that you cant sustain heals as good as shaman's can. That your mana = hp healed isnt the same. But bottomline is you can heal as good as shaman. Your class defining heal is LoH... and that's a guaranteed 100% heal. Plus you have the 2nd best hp buff in the game w/ your oathbound buff. You have BEA.

If i where a pally i wouldnt be crying about this and thank the gods that they havent found other ways too nerf you.... (yet)

And for another post some other day you have an incrediable overpowering aa. SU was never ment too be what it is today.

[Hulkling]

[shiftie]