Nerf (maybe) to Splash of Sanctification

[eaiana]

From test server patch notes for 6/2/10:

- Paladin - Splash of Sanctification has been converted to a more conventional cure. While it is no longer guaranteed to cure a detrimental effect, it can cure more than one effect at once now. It should no longer remove effects such as Cascading Rage.

Looks like Splash will have counters now. Since curing on raids is one of the things we are good at, I am not pleased that this is being changed half an expansion after the spell was invented.

[Sir Lucan D`Lere]

As much as I like the spell, I must say I've been expecting this since it went live. I never met anyone who was upset by the cure (openly), but it seem like a bit much. It will still be a decent heal I suppose, if he doesn't limit the targets, but so much for a cure all :/

[shiftie]

nerd rage inc

I don't like that they are making the change in light of half the expansion designed around the spell. I never expected it to last - because it really was too good to be true. But I can think of several encounters and mechanics like sinkhole where this nerf will be seriously stupid. It is going to change things in a bad way for UF raids.

[Burkx]

So guilds who actually relied on paladins to be useful on raids will be screwed royally by this . Way to go SoE....

[boukk]

this wasnt even overpowered.
Well atleast they wont be able to use splash as a mean to not boost our class, just lost a good chunk of raid utility that way (back to just being a meh offtank and crapy dps).

[Sir Lucan D`Lere]

[Thebobo]

Who makes these decisions? Eld?

[riou]

[Kjan]

another spell that made us useful taken away..../golfclap SoE

[Normy]

Seriously, nerf rage:

What total and utter BS. We got two useful spells from the last expansion, and one of those is not being made useless.

And to counter what I'm probably about to get shoved in my face, no I don't give a crap that it will have some stupid counters and can still cure 15% of the BS everyone else can already cure in a superior fashion. This was basically our best raid use since our first group heal (remember, back when it healed more than 20% of your groupmates health?), and they are stripping it to useless.

So where is the logic here? What? did they suddenly forget they haven't actively TRIED to drive away any remaining paladins in a few months? I don't know of a single person that saw this as a problem spell, except that apparently we were finally good at something.

Seriously, this goes live, I'm done when my billing cycle is done. I know they don't care, but I'm tired of paying money to feel screwed. I can go to work and get that for free.

This is needless and an absolute waste of resources and time. I'm glad they have enough time to figure out any last possible ways to kill their player base, but not enough time to fix all the crap wrong in their game. I'm constantly impressed with Sony's ability to consistantly outdue previous stupidity with greater extremes. How hard can it possibly be to NOT "fix" the shit thats working fine.

/finger Sony

/rant off

[shiftie]

Splash is still the best cure in the game, by far. But it is no longer a guaranteed cure.

While I grant that there's no way to take this except as a nerf, the old Splash was far too powerful to continue as it was. It removed the first detrimental effect it came in contact with. Any effect at all, with 100% success. There wasn't an upgrade path. There wasn't a way to compensate with AE design. It hamstrung us from both the content and the systemic sides, so we had to change it.

Just so people have the actual data, here's what rank 1 does now:
Aristo wrote:

HP: 1293
Poison: -16
Poison: -16
Disease: -16
Disease: -16
Curse: -8
Curse: -8
Corruption: -8
Corruption: -8
Remove Detrimental: 8
Remove Detrimental: 8
While the new spell is less powerful against one effect than it was, it's not a bad cure by any means, and it's still the best cure a raid can ask for.

[Xanderax]

So let me get this straight. They have time to do something about this but not enough time to do anything about our dps situation. The Devs should ask themselves why should I play a Paladin? Why should a paladin keep paying a monthly subcription? If dps mercs get released you better like playing solo.They are not just going to lose paladins. They will lose the other accounts paladins have too. When I first read this I got really angry and colorful words kept popping up on the screen... Not very paladin like words. It is not even the fact that it needs to change. It is the fact they are working on something that has nothing to do with our real problem...DPS... The Devs inaction on what really matters is the real issue here.


Xanderax

One not very happy customer.

[Brohg]

[vawen]

Yay for another nerf! after reading the thread on eqforums (and not being able to post btw) it is pretty clear devs have no friggin clue the dmg this gonna do to raids and to an extend group content.

But the best is the assertion aout paly dps is reworded with AA on next expansion lol. So on next expansion, with AA, "maybe" our dps increase some. Of course it will not account the dps increase on the other class, so we will be like now, but with a done(tm) fix.

I am starting to get really sick of our devs. Can't think on a way to screw us more at this moment, and this situation is falling in a completly respect fault from SoE part to us. I am feeling really agraviated at this moment.

[Normy]

That is correct, there is no definate upgrade path for pre-nerf Splash... But then why do we need one? I mean, there are confirmed upgrade paths for most of our spells that have never been upgraded (pacify, flame of light, root). And we have a slew of spells that were basically a one-off. Aura comes to mind, Silent Piety, a few others I'm not coming up with right now.

Nerfing a spell as to provide an excuse for further "upgrades" that will bring it closer to what we have right now, pre-nerf, is a stupid policy to have. So maybe they can "fix" our aura issue the same way. Give the current one 5 counters, after 5 heals hit it needs to be recast. Then further upgrades down the line can increase that number, giving us scalability for upgrades. And right now, Glorious Vindication doesn't have much in upgradeableness (new word copyright @Normy) on it right now. So here is what they can do, make the twin heal recourse like a 40% chance to actually proc on the nuke. THEN, with new expansions the damage can be increased as well as the % chance of getting a twin heal out of it! It's brilliant, and perfectly in line with the logic of killing a spell in order to fix it.

And I'm being realistic in saying that the game probably doesn't have another 3-4 expansions in it, which means that the scalability of our current spells really shouldn't be their crowning concern, it should be more focused on keeping the players they have.

Yea, the spell is still a good cure. Now all we need is 4 paladins casting it at the same time to cure a modern corruption DoT. Fantastic. OR, to save on postage, maybe real group cure capable classes will just handle it like they did in the past, making us again useless in the cure department. How many counters are on a modern RC again?

This will become the new Ward of Tunare, I'll probably remember to mem it from time to time, but I'll forget to cast it more often than not. My clicky shoulders provide a better heal to my group for no mana and greater range.

I cling to a small hope, in that at least I see a few deterimental spell counter cures. But its a small hope. Given the track record of devs fixing our spells, the only one that they really fixed in our favor for as long as I can remember was Aurora, and note how most people believe that may have been a mistake/accident that they just don't want to put resources into correcting.

[boukk]

The retarded thing, is they re changing for a reason that isn't even real, they want it to stop curing rez effect, which it doesn't do in the first place.

Too many UF raid are tuned around this ability (god forbids giving paladin somewhat of a role again), and the reason they want to fix it for isn't real.

Yet another dev screw up, expect more guild falling.

Now he said he created an AA that will fix pally dps, curious what it is.

[Vaindolf]

The funniest part about this is the attempt to "make up" for it by upgrading the already low heal in it by a wooping 10%. AND the "fix" that should be made years ago to a totally useless spell today that never will be memorized. How 1-900-MixALot clueless are the EQ dev team?
They claim to be swarmed by work, but had to make time to do a useless change to a useless spell. 1-900-MixALot amazing waste of time.

[Silverboltt]

Really?


.....Really?

[balladish]

Really simple logic to me.

SOE's number one and primary goal: make money.
A spell line that isn't upgradeable is bad for business. Coming up with original, new ideas of enhancing a class obviously isn't in the arsenal of these devs, or within their time constraints, so instead of keeping a really useful spell as it is (since it doesn't allow for upgrades) and work on other ways to convince paladins to buy subscriptions they decide instead to nerf it and promise upgrades to it so paladins keep on buying expansions and pay for subscriptions.
It's 1-900-MixALot up logic, but that's the way I see it. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever from a class balancing standpoint to nerf Splash. This is for one reason only: allow for upgrades in future expansions.

[Silverboltt]

[balladish]

The only reason I feel that this change might not happen is because this affects each and every class in the game. Warriors aren't going to get their shiny new 1Handers, Necros won't get their new oobles rai BP and SKs sure as hell won't be getting any more toys to their already insane arsenal of weapons unless they can actually beat the raid. The proposed changes to Splash will make these raids effectively unbeatable.

It's funny how ironic life is, really - I'm seeing the same monkeys who are usually first in line to convince the devs to nerf paladins actually back off of this one, because it'll cut into their paycheck as well.

[Vaindolf]

Well infact if it goes live with those counters and can still be twincasted its still kinda nice i guess, depending on how many counters they give to the dots/debuffs on events.
But kinda funny still how SoE works. Couldnt they forsee the spell when they did it in the first place? Like the thing with old HA and other OP stuff. Amazed they dont seem to know how things affects the game.
And yes i still laughing at the Heal over time change that was requested how many years ago? =)
I guess SoE devs still holeheartedly think players running around using pally HoTs anymore lol.

[Brohg]

[Luthair]

[Normy]

RC removes some corruption spells, so somehow it does seem to have corruption counters even if not seen in the lucy data. Best example of this is the queen event, the targetted AE is corruption based, but I have cured myself and my group with my RC. /shrug, I don't know why it seems to work on some corruption spells but it most definately does.

And your chant is fast casting and chainable, and hits your group in a fairly respectable range. Mine is on a 30 second timer and removes my biggest group heal from my spell list, not to mention the mana difference. True, this isn't limited to group, which is all it has going for it after the nerf, but don't try to convince me its going to be "uniquely powerful" after its nerf, the same was said for the dead spell line of Ward of Tunare. Splash is uniquely powerful now, and thats why its being nerfed.

Will it still work as a cure afterwards? Sure. But its power was based around how well it could remove effects that normally can't have cure poison cast and remove it. This is now an upgrade to cure corruption, since our only other corruption cure spell cures 8 counters only. I can't imagine for a second any group paladin out there memming this spell again considering the cost.

But, as usual this is going to be rammed down our throats. Maybe this was long-anticipated to some, but to me this comes out of left field. They already have numerous ways to code around something being cured, so I won't buy that this spell made it impossible to make challenging content.

As with anything, I'll try it out after they break it. Just like I did Ward. And then it can sit with the rest of my uniquely powerful spells when I realize having Brells up might be more important to the raid.

And I see the twin casting trick being nerfed before this goes live. The effect is supposed to be a twin heal, not a twin cure, but then who knows: I didn't see a problem with unnerfed Splash anyway so maybe they'll shock me again.

[Silverboltt]

Cheer up guys we got a floating unicorn!

[Hulkling]

[shiftie]

just so everyone is clear I was quoting a dev from eqlive. Not 100% sure everyone realizes that

[riou]

[Vaindolf]

[riou]

[Vaindolf]

[19855/10232] Splash of Sanctification Rk. III
Classes: PAL/83
Mana: 1729
Target: Target Ring AE
Range: 100, AE Range: 50
Beneficial: Blockable
Casting: 1s, Recast: 18s, Timer: 2
Max Targets: 6
1: Increase Current HP by 1477
2: Decrease Poison Counter by 21
3: Decrease Poison Counter by 21
4: Decrease Disease Counter by 21
5: Decrease Disease Counter by 21
6: Decrease Curse Counter by 10
7: Decrease Curse Counter by 10
8: Decrease Corruption Counter by 10
9: Decrease Corruption Counter by 10
10: Remove Detrimental (10)
11: Remove Detrimental (10)

taken from raidloot. Hope that max target 6 for the cure is an error

[Uhaen]

Guys, guys!

Chillax! At least we're getting a DPS upgrade.

[Imrahil]

[Brohg]

What you highlighted has always been there, Vaindolf. It's nonfunctional because the splash effect isn't treated as cast by a pc. Same thing keeps you from dying to the backlash from, like, Curator's AE.

[boukk]

The nerf isn't really as bad as I anticipated, yes it sucks, but not as bad as I thought.
Might be a different story past queen raid tho, have no experience of t7 (or T8 whatever you wanna call it) raids yet.

[Hulkling]

It should be ok'ish, but Curse counters really need to be brought in line with Disease/Poison

[vawen]

[Vaindolf]

Theres some dots in BT for about 125 poison counters i think where you now need 2 pallys twincast the splash to cure it as before one pally, singel cast. There is probably many more events like that im guessing.

[balladish]

So far I haven't noticed any change to Splash, but then again our guild isn't in UF yet.

The 6 target limit is the worst part of it, IMO. If you're in a raid of 50 people, you need this ability to be truly AE, with no target limit.