Nerf (maybe) to Splash of Sanctification

[Normy]

Wait, is it really only hitting 6 people at a time? Or is it still the targetted AE it was meant to be?

[Vaindolf]

Tried it on raid today and got MASSIVE aggro on most mobs on the event after using it ones... Did they make it generate heal aggro now? /sigh

[Ughbash]

[Thebobo]

[shiftie]

I used it last night on BT raid and it is not effectively curing detrimental debuffs. It's pretty much neutered.

[Hulkling]

Rank 2 is:
10: Remove Detrimental (9)
11: Remove Detrimental (9)

The higher the value the better chance it has to remove a detrimental effect. So Splash has 2 chances to remove a detrimenatal effect. If we use it with Twincast, then it'll have 4 chances to remove a detrimental effect.

[shiftie]

I'm pretty sure that isn't how this is set to work.

Since they said it has the chance to cure more than one debuff it only has 1 chance per debuff unless twincasted

debuff
debuff

splash

cure detriment 9
cure detriment 9

with the potential to cure each of the 2 debuffs 1 time unless twincast and then it would be cure detriment 18 , if the second debuff isn't on your toon then the second line is meaningless.

[Normy]

Yea, my understanding of multiple slots with the same effect is that once one of those lines takes a crack at curing an effect, the rest goes on down the list and see's if it can take a crack at some other debuff on your bar.

IE Twincasting this means you'll get 2 chances to remove any single detrimental effect on your character. If you have 2 detrimental effects, then EACH will get 2 chances at being cured with a twincast.

[Finori]

That logic should be easily testable. Get one detrimental effect that has more counters than a single line but less than 2 lines. Then see if one splash can remove it or not.

A paladin with splash rk.i would do since it only removes 16 poison counters per line and pretty much all newer shaman/necro dots have 18 poison counters on them.

Or Splash rk.III vs. Breath of Queen Malarian - 21 vs 24 disease counters.

[Hulkling]

If ya look at Remove Greater Curse http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?i ... ource=Live it has 5 slots of 9 counters each. Each slot keeps banging away at the same DoT until its cured up to 45 counters, or can potentially cure 5 DoTs of 9 counters each, or any combination. Its basically set up so you are instantly casting "Remove 9 counters" five times in a row. Splash should be doing the exact same thing (similar to Radiant Cure).

I'm gonna try to take a necro or shammy to the arena to cast DoTs on me in different orders to see exactly whats happening.

[varutia]

Yeah, it generates damn aggro at least by what I seen yesterday, spamming it like before can lead to some potential issues on raids.

[Normy]

[Turayalon]

Indeed the agro seems pretty wonky now it was pretty funny using it on masked invaders last night and the kite mobs would come visit lol, not to mention on boss mobs it almost feels like it was taunting. Note also on UB it makes things interesting for the trash waves when ae stun isnt on all the mobs and they suddenly all turn on you or when minis are being kited and some suddenly come play with you was good times.

[Normy]

So now its returning far more agro than what would come of the 2k heal huh? With each person that posts about how the changes have it, it gets closer to page 50 of my spell book. Don't get me wrong, gimp AE agro can be cool in some situations, but there are plenty of times that I don't want agro and still just want to cure.

I feel like I'm watching a train accident in extreme slow-mo as more info keeps coming.

[Genadinee]

I'm sorry but I always felt Splash was missing in the Aggro department, now you can heal 50 people for close to 10K each and then you wonder why the mobs don't like you.

It will now almost force a Guilds Paladins to work together in splashing and share the aggro.

In my book its a move in the right direction.

[Normy]

2 things.

1) Please don't represent Splash as a 10k heal across the entire raid. We have enough nerfing going on. Its more like an 8k heal if you twincast it and if both times it crits for max healing. I know what you were meaning by it, but we have enough trolls looking for fodder to fuel additional nerfs. Average healing per person hit is more like 4k with twincast in my experience.

2) I don't have a problem with agro on it either. It should be identical agro to our group heals though. If this is pulling raid targets off warriors, then this will be banned from any raid I run except for extremely rare circumstances. So if this is giving us mass amounts of agro and screwing raid strategy, then thats not any good either.

Generally, I'm ok with group-heal-like agro on Splash, since thats our gimp AE agro anyway. Even a little more is fine, again I just don't want to be turning raid targets. And honestly if its pulling mobs off SK's kiting, then this has a TON of agro attached to it right now. Maybe giving 2k hate for every single target that is healed on the mobs hate list?

Since no one commented on it further, I assume this is still hitting any many players as within range, not the "max target of 6" stuff that showed up in spell data, right?

[Abazzagorath]

[Brohg]

[Thebobo]

[Nirmalti]

I don't find the aggro to be a major problem. We have several tools to dump aggro if necessary.

All in all, I'm mixed on the nerf. It can still be pretty powerful. Curing up to 3-4 debuffs in Tower 2 wavekiller for example. But, it can no longer cure stuff like Tower 6 silence at start.

[Normy]

[riou]

Highest focus is 90% Normy, on top of that rank3 is about 5% iirc over rank2 or about that so it is a little bigger base, that the Raiders who posted the 11ks have , tbh they prob also have first spire on or some other healing mod boost from bard or war though, 8.5-9kish is prob tops without any special boosts like that

[Abazzagorath]

I just splashed in guild lobby with nothing on, and had 2 crits for 11k+, 3 for 10k+, and a bunch for 8-9k+ crits.

Unless you are not even looking at how much the spell landed for and are just looking at how much it healed you for, I have zero clue how you could possibly ever get an 1800 value on the spell.

With an 18 second recast it does get a nice boost from +heal amount though, how much +heal amount do you have? If I think about it I'll take off gear and test it with low +heal amount at some point.

[Abazzagorath]

[Normy]

[Normy]

Ok, well, the reason you have such big heal amounts has to come from your very impressive Heal Amount on your gear. You are in the 330's I think when I looked at your magelo. I'm at 120. Combine that with a 90% focus and that has to be why you are seeing such impressive heals.

Which also highlights another problem that the paladin class has as a whole. An end-game character with all the latest gear doesn't experience the game the same way as the groupers and lower raiders. This is a great example, on one end you have alot of paladins saying the heal on Splash needs to be higher because it doesn't do a whole lot for them, and on the other end paladins are getting 22k blasts out of it saying they are nuts, the heal is almost overpowered.

So we spend more time arguing amongst ourselves and less time getting the things we need/want.

Oh well, whats done is done. I apologize for even taking it this far with a spell that is pretty much neutered anyway. I didn't have it up again last night, the entire raid night, and I didn't even notice. It's in the same category as Ward, I'll use it when I'm reaching for any edge I can get. But at least it can cure SOME things, so it'll get more use than Ward does. I really regret buying rank 2 in the bazaar a few months ago though.

Its pretty damn sad when a game you play for supposed fun makes you regret anything.

/waits on the nerf to Glorious Vindication next

[shiftie]

[Luthair]

[Abazzagorath]

Well, with 5-90% heal focus, max adept, and 336 heal amount, here are the crits I saw casting twice in the lobby:

8358
8119
10793
8931
8596
8023
8644
7546
6925
9695
8549
6972
7784
9265
10459
8692
9504
9408
6925
8740
7641
10363
8978
9217
9647
7211
7259
6972
8310
7116

Highest I noticed last night was a 11393, was during raid so many it was on someone in a paladin group or someone with some other heal on self mod going. Obviously, this spell is affected a lot by heal amount, but thats a good thing. It means the spell gets better the better gear you get. Really wish the aggro would get tuned down on it.

[Zanador]

with the aggro on it it's unplayable and unmemmed in my lineup atm. When 1 cast of splash is screwing up kites and basically guaranteed killing the paladin it's not worth memming.

And on the dps issue why are you all still whining about dps? We just got a solid dps tool in devout persecution you can chain all day long and not go oom. You all are like a kid in a candy store that was just handed a big bag of candy for free and then you throw it on the ground and throw a temper tantrum because you weren't given everything in the store? Greedy much?

And you do realize splash has been crippling zerkers dps since it was launched right? And it was the zerkers that were screaming to get it fixed right? And instead of fixing it on the zerkers end they fixed it on our end right?

[Hulkling]

Pretty sure the zerker ability (and others like it) was changed a long time ago to not be curable, thus splash not removing it. Haven't tested it personally though, so could be wrong.

[Finori]

[riou]

Yea, aggro on this spell blows. Makes it unusable in quite a few places, which is fun when it's needed in the same places : /

[Normy]

[varutia]

Most unfortunate but with the aggro business in addition to cure nerf, splash now moved into almost never use category for me

[Zanador]

Um why are you whining we are behind sk's in dps? In case you forgot while throwing your hissy fit in the candy store. . . WE SHOULD BE BEHIND SK'S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now take a deep breath use this tissue and dry your eyes since you've been crying a year and a half at least and remember this. SK's are supposed to be the Offensive DPS knight and Palladins are supposed to be the Defensive Healing/Curing Knight. For that matter warriors should be ahead of us to in dps. It should be SK's >Wars > Paladins. And wouldn't you know it? Wait let me double check. . . BY GOLLY WIZ IT IS SK's > Wars > Pallys!!! Whodathunkit? I mean seriously if you are going to play the our dps sucks soe hates us card then use a valid argument not the sk's and wars who should be better then us are better then us dps argument.
Back to splash tho. Oh hulking . . . have you talked to the devs and figured out when they are going to fix the aggro issue on it? They can keep the cure as is but fix the freaking aggro.

[Normy]

Have you actually read any of the threads on DPS, the dozens that have been on this forum? I assume from your response that you have not. I'm not about to make all the same arguements that have been made by people that know a lot more about the issue just so you can argue DPS in a non-related topic. I got it, you don't think the rest of the paladin community should be asking for more DPS.

[petain]

[Turayalon]

I would of thought everyone would be use to Zanador's posts by now he has quite the resume of what his posts are about 90% of the time

[Hulkling]

I've been chatting with Aristo and he's aware of the agro issue. Splash hate is a little trickier to fix because its beneficial heal agro, as opposed to a detrimental DD that can have hateoverride. Will keep everyone updated when I hear more.