Important info on slows

[Retron]

[Hecude Poison`Blood]

[Kianor]

[Kanamori Hitatomi]

[Retron]

[Zethrir]

A real world example to show what Rashere is saying (as I read it wrong the first time)

Tier 1 mob

a unslowed 'A wind nymph' a light blue con in dragonscale hills to a level 80

[Fri Dec 07 09:17:26 2007] A wind nymph tries to bash YOU, but YOU block!
[Fri Dec 07 09:17:34 2007] A wind nymph tries to bash YOU, but YOU dodge!
[Fri Dec 07 09:17:42 2007] A wind nymph bashes YOU for 134 points of damage.
[Fri Dec 07 09:17:50 2007] A wind nymph kicks YOU for 159 points of damage.
[Fri Dec 07 09:17:58 2007] A wind nymph tries to bash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Dec 07 09:18:06 2007] A wind nymph kicks YOU for 146 points of damage.
[Fri Dec 07 09:18:14 2007] A wind nymph tries to kick YOU, but YOU dodge!
[Fri Dec 07 09:18:22 2007] A wind nymph tries to bash YOU, but YOU block!
[Fri Dec 07 09:18:30 2007] A wind nymph bashes YOU for 134 points of damage.
[Fri Dec 07 09:18:38 2007] A wind nymph tries to bash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Dec 07 09:18:46 2007] A wind nymph tries to kick YOU, but misses!
[Fri Dec 07 09:18:54 2007] A wind nymph tries to bash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Dec 07 09:19:02 2007] A wind nymph tries to bash YOU, but YOU dodge!

Has the standard 8 second gap between bash / kick attacks

Now landing a 75% slow on this same mob results in the following

[Fri Dec 07 09:19:10 2007] Your spell was partially successful.
[Fri Dec 07 09:19:10 2007] A wind nymph yawns.

[Fri Dec 07 09:19:17 2007] A wind nymph bashes YOU for 134 points of damage.
[Fri Dec 07 09:19:31 2007] A wind nymph tries to kick YOU, but YOU block!
[Fri Dec 07 09:19:46 2007] A wind nymph tries to kick YOU, but YOU dodge!
[Fri Dec 07 09:20:01 2007] A wind nymph tries to bash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Dec 07 09:20:15 2007] A wind nymph tries to bash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Dec 07 09:20:30 2007] A wind nymph kicks YOU for 153 points of damage.
[Fri Dec 07 09:20:44 2007] A wind nymph bashes YOU for 134 points of damage.
[Fri Dec 07 09:20:59 2007] A wind nymph tries to kick YOU, but YOU dodge!
[Fri Dec 07 09:21:14 2007] A wind nymph bashes YOU for 134 points of damage.
[Fri Dec 07 09:21:28 2007] A wind nymph bashes YOU for 134 points of damage.
[Fri Dec 07 09:21:43 2007] A wind nymph bashes YOU for 134 points of damage.
[Fri Dec 07 09:21:57 2007] A wind nymph kicks YOU for 175 points of damage.
[Fri Dec 07 09:22:12 2007] A wind nymph tries to bash YOU, but misses!

The bash / kicks attacks have now become 14.5 seconds apart

Now for the maths

Back in luclin a non-mitigating mob that was slowed with a 75% slow would go from bash / kicking every 8 seconds to doing it every 32 seconds (as you can imagine a 75% slow was quite overpowered)

8 / (1 - 0.75) = 32 seconds

Today in SoF this particular Partial mitigating mob that was slowed with a 75% slow would go from bash / kicking every 8 seconds to doing it every 14.5 seconds

8 / (1 - 0.45) = 14.5 seconds

So today on this particular mob a 75% slow would land as if it was a 45% slow
Similarly on this particular mob a 65% slow would land as if it was a 39% slow
Similarly on this particular mob a 55% slow would land as if it was a 33% slow

Tier 2 mob

a yellow con to level 80 PC 'A Kirathas villager' in Hills of Shade

Now landing a 75% slow on this mob results in the following

[Fri Dec 07 13:21:24 2007] Your spell was partially successful.
[Fri Dec 07 13:21:24 2007] A Kirathas villager's body slows down.

[Fri Dec 07 13:21:29 2007] A Kirathas villager tries to kick YOU, but YOU dodge!
[Fri Dec 07 13:21:41 2007] A Kirathas villager bashes YOU for 263 points of damage.
[Fri Dec 07 13:21:52 2007] A Kirathas villager bashes YOU for 263 points of damage.
[Fri Dec 07 13:22:04 2007] A Kirathas villager bashes YOU for 263 points of damage.
[Fri Dec 07 13:22:15 2007] A Kirathas villager bashes YOU for 263 points of damage.
[Fri Dec 07 13:22:27 2007] A Kirathas villager tries to kick YOU, but misses!
[Fri Dec 07 13:22:38 2007] A Kirathas villager bashes YOU for 263 points of damage.
[Fri Dec 07 13:22:50 2007] A Kirathas villager kicks YOU for 294 points of damage.
[Fri Dec 07 13:23:01 2007] A Kirathas villager kicks YOU for 292 points of damage.
[Fri Dec 07 13:23:12 2007] A Kirathas villager bashes YOU for 263 points of damage.

The bash / kick attacks are 11.5 seconds apart (as opposed to 8 seconds on a unslowed mob)

8 / (1 - 0.304) = 11.5 seconds

So today on this particular mob a 75% slow would land as if it was about 30% slow
Similarly on this particular mob a 65% slow would land as if it was about 26% slow
Similarly on this particular mob a 55% slow would land as if it was about 22% slow

Tier 3 mob

a yellow con to level 80 'A fan mechanic' in The Steam Factory

Now landing a 75% slow on this mob results in the following:

[Fri Dec 07 13:55:31 2007] Your spell was partially successful.
[Fri Dec 07 13:55:31 2007] A fan mechanic's body slows down.

[Fri Dec 07 13:55:33 2007] A fan mechanic bashes YOU for 395 points of damage.
[Fri Dec 07 13:55:43 2007] A fan mechanic bashes YOU for 99 points of damage.
[Fri Dec 07 13:55:53 2007] A fan mechanic kicks YOU for 416 points of damage.
[Fri Dec 07 13:56:03 2007] A fan mechanic tries to kick YOU, but misses!
[Fri Dec 07 13:56:13 2007] A fan mechanic kicks YOU for 403 points of damage.
[Fri Dec 07 13:56:23 2007] A fan mechanic tries to bash YOU, but misses!
[Fri Dec 07 13:56:33 2007] A fan mechanic bashes YOU for 395 points of damage.
[Fri Dec 07 13:56:43 2007] A fan mechanic tries to kick YOU, but misses!

The bash / kick attacks are 10 seconds apart (as opposed to 8 seconds on a unslowed mob)

8 / (1 - 0.20) = 10.0 seconds

So today on this particular mob a 75% slow would land as if it was about 20% slow
Similarly on this particular mob a 65% slow would land as if it was about 17.33% slow
Similarly on this particular mob a 55% slow would land as if it was about 14.66% slow

Tier 4 mob

Dont have access yet but I am going to assume that a 75% slow would land as if it was about 15% slow

Now the amount a particular NPC mitigates can be adjusted by the designer of the NPC so you can't assume that these values will hold for every NPC you attack with a Partial message but its a good starting point.

[Funi]

I honestly believe content is tuned around end game players because that is where the feed back comes from in most cases. I'm doing fine for the most part and there are a few zone I struggle to heal in even with end game tanks. There are even a few zones where I wouldn't want to be in-trusted to be the main healer. I mean things are fine and dandy if you only got singles every where you went but as far as I've seen there aren't any zones where you get single each and every time. From my view I see a whole lot of zones where I have a hard time imagining your average group coming in and setting up shop. I have seen a few times in Bloodmoon where a group of average players came in and camped the entrance but they had a good 4 to 5 boxed toons out side the group.

Maybe the design is for this content not be so easy till everyone has gotten a chance to get new gear weather it be groupable gear or raid gear. At any rate I don't see Druids fairing much better really. Mansion is rough as hell even when your paired with a cleric. I haven't tried to heal in Crystallos yet but I imagine it to be the same as Mansion or worse. Although I do think Crystallos will be the place to be before the next expansion comes out and people have gotten new and better gear.

[Sarkaukar]

[Hecude Poison`Blood]

[Kneesmasher]

[Unmei]

[Veril]

[Tugela]

[Tugela]

[Fenier]

[Funi]

[harlybear]

[Funi]

[Aristein]

[Fenier]

[myrmidonlord666]

[Fenier]

[xilly]

[Hecude Poison`Blood]

[Aristein]

[Kanamori Hitatomi]

[ThraallFV]

See first off masses suck, but we all know that.

As a pretty well equiped grouping shaman (see magelo, its a mix of gear) i am able to heal pretty well. THe toughest i have done was SHIP with a warrior tank (just shy of 20k hp fully buffed). I was able to heal him but it was rough. If there was a bad round it got close. I had to have HoT in on pull.

And what people dont realize is that when a shaman starts healing these things and pushes the healing envelope we stop doing all of the other things that make us powerful. When im healing the hard stuff im doing nothing else, thats a huge thing that no one thinks about.

[Vigdis]

Shaman heals are working as intended!

[Hecude Poison`Blood]

[Kianor]

Last night, I main healed in Crystallos for short periods when the cleric was afk or medding. I could barely cope, as long as we had single pulls and no adds or splits. Which is pretty limiting really. Mind you, adds or splits gets dangerous whoever is healing.

The tank was a TSS/Solteris geared level 79 paladin (Amanensia). I am similiarly geared but only 77, so I don't have the new heal yet, or Ancestral Intervention. At times, even after the mob was slowed, I was chain healing and the tank's health was going down faster than my heals were taking it up. Without tricks and without the paladin helping heal himself, it would not have worked.

I don't know what Ancestral Intervention is like to work with, but I expect it helps a lot, particularly in tricky situations. But I've found that compared to all the other healing classes, including paladins, we're very limited. We have one main heal, one main HoT, we're efficient but lacking in variety. Our group HoTs are nice, but they're not really life saving. We're short on fast heals, and direct group heals. I hope AI makes up for this shortcoming, I'll find out once I get it.

Shamans are not bad healers, in most group content we can cope, but we're nowhere near a cleric, and significantly behind a druid. Even paladins have more life saving tricks - group heals and large fast heals - than we do. In cutting edge content such as Crystallos, we struggle, and if shamans are meant to be able to main heal that with a knight tanking, I'd say they need to revisit our healing abilities.

[Veril]

I've done some crystallos grouping, me+clr+pally+sk+bard+dps. We are all tss/solteris geared when I have had to heal the offtanking SK it's been about a 75% success rate, 25% of the time he dies.
Couple of times I've main healed the pally while the cleric was medding for mana, and it's really rough. HoT the pally on pull, Malis+slow the mob on incoming and then it's continual spam healing on the pally. Even then the cleric dropped and extra heal or the pally did some self healing.

This is vs normal mobs obviously.

I have always been an advocate of shaman should be able to heal in any content.

[Samanna]

[Hecude Poison`Blood]

[Kanamori Hitatomi]

You know what the really funny thing is?

A group geared shaman is supposed to be able to heal in Tier 3 and Crystallos according to Rashere. BAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAH!

If Solteris-geared shamans can barely keep Solteris-geared warriors, I sense failure in the group-geared shaman's healing a group-geared tank. There's a huge difference in the focuses and equipment between top-SoF-geared group (which they won't have the top gear yet, it's IN Crystallos) and Solteris-geared group.

[Amanensia]

[Retron]

[Kanamori Hitatomi]

[Amanensia]

[Samanna]

Yeah, but... my Tacvi gear has several mod2s... at 3-5% or 10-15 raw. The "groupable" stuff I'm seeing has like a dozen mod2s, but... at 1-2% each, or 4-5 raw.

50 or 100 or even 300 HP is NOT worth halving my worn avoidance, stun resist, and dodge - not to mention the other mods.

[Retron]