What is the future of the shaman?

[Kumudil]

The more I think about the progress shamans made the last expansions the more only the "not so good things" are coming to my mind.
I would like to remind more, what where the good things we recived since OOW.

My picture of the shaman class at lvl 70:
Best debuffer in game, we had the best slow in game and same cripple than chanters. Apart from that, slow made still a big difference, even mitigation began to grow. Best personal dps out of the priests. Best Group-supporter around.
We where highly effective, when at these times canni allowed us to do whatever we wanted as long we wanted.
We never have been Kings of burst of any stuff, but thanks to canni we could outlast anyone.


Where we are today:
DPS-mitigation-Debuffing:
Chanter: Difference in slow today is almost unnotable, they got cripple updates, when mob is stunnable chaining 2 stuns they almost stunlock the mob.
Druid: 1 attack debuff mitigates as much as our slow, when needed they can stack a second one. Those attack debuffs stack with any slower in game.
Mage: If mobs are stunnable the mage airpet stunns for 25% of the time, thats around the double of damage mitigation of our slow.
Shamans are now around place 4 than .. not shure what Bards can do on the mitigation side to the mobs, but apart from similar slow they can enhance the tanks AC a big chunk.

Personal dps out of priests:
The only class left out of the casting-revamp are the shaman.
The pets dps received a stagnation comparing to the others and is now second only to the druids booboo .. on the low end.
Where we received a, in my opinion complete useless, "Pack of Aina" as the big new spell of the expansion, Others got "twincast" a manafree dps-doubler.

My sometimes boxed druid with much lesser gear and 1500 AAs less compared to my main can chaincast the 2 biggest nukes much longer and dealing much more damage than I can do with my main and thats not on burst events only but also I.E. on murdunks last stand, an around 30 min endurance event.
Befor SOD same druid never was close to the shamans dps.

Canni: between ooc regen and the massive increases in mana cost of core spells I can't do anymore what I was used to. I run oom.
Any and everything got balanced against canni. Today canni is only a big detriment, you have to use it whenever possible to not get complete useless and it costs 20% of all aviable casttime, which decreases our efficience exact the same amount.

What I am able to do in group is almost indifferent what any boxer can do with 3 hotbuttons.
On inc: malis, slow, panther. Than either dot, dot, dot, nuke, or dot dot nuke nuke. Canni whenever possible and sit to manareg.
Recast sloth and champion when running out. If I try to do more I run lom.

Group support:
Panther got double nerf. The new one RKI does same damage than the old one RKII and cost more mana. So stagnation.
Ontop of that they got cut of a tic of base duration, which makes them cost around another 20% more mana to sustain (depends on foci).
Third spire: I tried to parse the effect on test with an lvl 80 ranger. I couldn't parse a notable difference.
Heal-revamp: for my playstyle almost unnotable. My usual group contains a cleric, when he's not on a merc does the job.

Anchestral intervention: this is the best single new thing we got in the last view expansions .. what are the others?
Malis and slow as AAs: really a big plus also.

It feels like somehow we lost our lobby on the defs side.
Step 1: Shaman compare to chanters are to strong .. lets cut off the cripple.
Step 2: Shaman compare to druids are to strong .. lets massivly increase the manacosts of all their core spell, and to balance that cut of the fastcanni-AA.
Step 3: .. whats next? Shamans compare to Bards are still useful: lets give the Bards something more on the meelesupport-side or just stagnate the shamans a bit more in this area by not giving any upgrades there ... champions is still good for another couple of expansions, isn't it?

I hang almost exclusive around with the same group of friends and we get the stuff done. I just feel less useful than I have been.

Are there still main-shamans around grouping? Am I wrong with my feelings? Are we still as strong as we have been and I just don't see it?
Whats your picture of the future shaman?

[Whitman]

I can only say that I absolutely favor shaman when I invite people to groups. Maybe, like rangers, you are not the best at much, but your overall contribution to a group is immense (buffage, some DPS, crowd control, debuffing/slows and of course heal power). I know nothing about your nerfs etc. but there is a vast difference in grouping in SoD with or without a shaman. You rock. Could or should you be better? *shrugs* , but I hug shaman when I have the chance (in a manly sort of way, of course!)

[Ughbash]

Hmm what have we gotten since OOW.

Talisman of Lynx.
Talsiman of foresight and just recently Unity.
AA slow and Malosinja and timed invisibility to free up spell gems.
Listlessness line of spells.
Sting line of Nukes.
Nectar line of poison dots.
Increased the overcap mitigation.

We have done pretty well since OOW.

[Unmei]

I think the shamans were perhaps a little -too- good around level 70, while enchanters were sucking, so it's probably a good thing that they come in closer now. Shamans are still the premier melee DPS boosting class, and you've gotten very strong healing upgrades. The only area where you haven't made steady strides forward is in debuffing - which has only become easier for you, rather than more powerful.

It's also worth something that you have to compare yourself to like 5 different classes to demonstrate how you're "not good". As a fairly generalist class, the fact that you can compete with that many other classes sounds like a plus to me.

Doesn't sound like a problem at all.

[Tharkis]

Shaman are in a pretty good state. As Unmei says, our debuffing hasnt goten more powerfull (plainly because it was for a long time too powerful) but has become easier, as has our buffing (it was a long fought battle to get unity created, and that's a huge upgrade in terms of usability and ease of play for shaman)

I'd argue as well Unmei though, that shaman DPS has more or less stagnated for a good while now though. Most shaman dont worry that much about their personal dps unless their soloing, so there hasnt bee much outcry or anything, but relative to the very substantial dps upgrades that melee and most every other caster class has enjoyed, shaman are coming in around dead last for the dps casters. Not saying this is a bad thing, because we're more than just a dps caster, we're actually quite decent now at healing after the major healing overhaul we got with the last expansion, but it's hard for a shaman to do much personal dps because we have to have dedicated so many of our spell gems full time to other functions with short duration effects or long recast effects.

Dot DPS in general has been more and more problematic, with nukes getting all sorts of huge boosts (spell dmg, better focuses, twincast etc) that dont work on dots. Necros can still do well, but they can also dedicate a whole spell bar to dots, a shaman cant do that, so we cant stack nearly as many.

[Unmei]

[Yesak]

Nah, we're not burst DPS and I'm fine with it that way. In my mind, we should have more AAs or spells or what have you to give the melees in our group better burst DPS (say an AA that is similar to epic click or something of that nature).

What I get annoyed with as a shaman is our very very little DPS. My girlfriend plays a cleric with a quarter of my AAs and not as good of gear (I'm in mostly t5 and MMM, she's a mix of t3 and MMM) and she's not far behind me in DPS. Her pet blows dogdog out of the water. Her proc is a baseline of 1700 to lynx's 700 (i have rank 3). Sting does 4600, her best nuke is Reprehend (which I dont understand the spell data which lists 3 numbers) but often times is pretty close to the damage of Sting it seems and she can chain it with Chromassail. We cannot chain anything unless we throw Ice Sheet at a whopping 2500 or Spear at about the same damage. And if she is tanking the mob, her DPS goes up AGAIN to a point where I cant really keep up unless I load about 5 DoTs and by some miracle they dont get resisted.

That brings me to another point, except for the nectar lines, my spells seem to get resisted at an annoying rate even after using the malo AA. Or having to use it on mobs that are light blue. That drives me nuts. Can we get some resist mods or at least make the lower lvl mobs less resistant to my lvl 80+ spells? But this is for pretty much all classes. Kind of a game wide thing I'd bet.

So if I had to complain about anything, it'd be our DPS. I dont need or want to fly up the parses but I would like to be able to match a cleric. There are a few ways of doing this. First would be simply give us a quality pet. Make dogdog do enough damage to make him worth summoning. The second would be to speed up our DoTs so we *can* stack a few before the critter dies. An AA that cuts our cast time on DoTs by 50% at least would be nifty. Our sting lines are great. I wouldnt mess with them at all. Adding a secondary melee proc would be nifty, or something like Pack that we could sustain would work too. I dont think we need alot, but a tweak to DPS would be quite beneficial.

[Bigcat Daddy-o]

[Veril]

[Unmei]

[Yesak]

[norik]

Two words "freaking lasers".

[Finori]

I chuckled as well. Since beta SoD whenever I read anything about clerics it had to do how the mercs are strangling them. How their DPS is so inferior etc etc. This is the first time I heard that a cleric can compete with us. As for Yesak's points: You cannot easily omit the resist adjustment on our Sting and Dots. If your cleric friend gets good DPS with her nuke then its because of you debuffing the mob. As for the procs ... well her self-proc combined with yaulp does more DPS than your group buff - well d'oh.
In general I see shamans run up to 50% of the top DPSer )* in raid and group situations - with very light healing. Any extra healing will be detrimental to the DPS. Is that a bad place to be in? Considering all the other stuff we bring to the group?

)* in average settings (not with some run-a-way wizard 60sec parse)

[Yesak]

I rant. It is what I do But this being what I'm ranting about should tell you something about the state of the shaman. We're doing alright And I bring the cleric aspect into it just as an example that I know (my girlfriend is sitting next to me playing the cleric). Do i know the class well? Cant really say that I do to be honest

[Kumudil]

[Finori]

[Veril]

[Unmei]

[Unmei]

[Yesak]

That is the normal reason why shaman do not DoT in normal groups: the mob is dead before we land more than 2 or 3 DoTs However, I do still DoT quite hard in normal groups if that group is lacking DPS. Going balls to the wall with them I was parsed at a consistent 1200 DPS or so. That is not counting what DPS I was doing via lynx procs or champ or what have you on other people. Just Yesak doing 1200 via personal lynx procs and DoTs. I do have full DoT AAs and rank2 of all of them.

I do not know what other classes DPS parse out to be. I've never parsed out my girlfriend's cleric (should probably do that eh?) but I would guess she can generate a consistent 800 or so. One of my BL friends says he's consistent at around 1600ish. He can get more if he tries but that is normal group settings.

Just outa curiosity, in normal grouping what is your DPS Unmei? I dont count charm pets because if they get loose, they wipe a group in no time flat. HUGE DPS potential but HUGE risk too IMO.

Like I said in one of my posts, we're not doing badly by any stretch of the imagination. However, there are things that I'd like to have improved upon. At least we arent being taken over by mercs (yet)

[Ughbash]

[Veril]

Grouping with guildies after Malo (I always mal mobs) and slow on the mob, keeping up lynx and lassitude and champion on the group, some splash healing and hots,any dot I land lasts 1-3 ticks, and it's simply not worth casting, so I nuke. Low DPS groups I use 2 dots on mobs, they last most of the duration.

[Bigcat Daddy-o]

I usually ran sting and poison dot, after a discussion here. (you'd have to find it). One dot typically could outdamage spear for me if it lasted 2 tics IIRC.

I might be wrong, but that is what I did.

[Kumudil]

[Yesak]

A parse of chanter average DPS in a normal group situation would be nice (ie, not charming). Those of you who box or play other classes, do me a favor and parse yourselves during a group and let me know whatcha get

[Cromagnon]

I'm always hesitant to come in another class's section and start talking especially since I've never personally played a shaman past level 10, but I feel there is alot of disingenous information here:

1) Can you honestly sit there and TRY to compare the power of your slow with a druids attack debuffs or a mage's air pet's stun? I mean this is just ludicrous, there is NO comparison to a slow, even mitigated. A slow (even mitigated) reduces a mobs dps output by adjusting the mob's delay, it does NOT matter one iota whether that mob is a grey con, or a red con, if the spell sticks, it gives a set % reduction, no ifs ands or butts about it (and this is taking into account slow mitigation, a grey con and red con that both mitigate to the same point, are still set values of delay restricted dps).

Now you are TRYING to compare that to an attack debuff, which if you've ever read anything about, is only of use for dps reduction on mobs who's attack is not trivial in comparison to the tanks armor class. If you take a druid and debuff full attack as much as able on a red mob, you will notice a very comparable effect to a slow class as far as mitigating incoming damage in the form of restricting the mobs attack value and thus its melee output. Now take a grey con mob (who's attack is already trivial in comparison to the tanks armor class more than likely unless the tank it teh suck) and fully debuff its attack, and you will notice almost ZERO change in incoming dps, as the tank is already getting hit for minimum damage a majority of the time. I'm going to counter here the response i already know that is coming "if its a grey con mob, why do you even need to reduce incoming damage" well that was jsut for example, substitute in a lblue or dblue mob for the grey con, and if again the tank is on par for the content when it comes to Armor Class values, these mobs are already trending towards minimum hits, and thus the effect has diminishing returns. Challenging content = attack debuffs have value, non challenging content (think xp grinding) and attack debuffs have huge diminishing returns.

Not to mention something you never even addressed, that a shaman/chanter / beastlord have 1 spell to cast (or even not cast if you consider sloth line of defensive slow procs) versus a series of druid debuffs that take 3-5 casts to enable. Not to mention the fact that a shaman can slow a mob then proceed to heal, versus a druid who can't take the time to debuff the mobs' attack if he is the primary healer, it just isn't reasonable. Really like comparing apples and oranges here.

2) I mean seriously, then the spectre of "i can't dot because mobs die so fast" comes up and...ummm wow is all I have to say. You mean to tell me that mobs are dying so fast, and you want to contribute dps? Why? Just so you can look better on a parse? Please...If they are dying so fast then your groups dps is already screaming, you are doing quite a bit of attributable dps for every single melee in group (pet or PC) as well as providing restrictions on incoming dmg, and helping the group survive through your utility. Sounds like you really want your cake and to eat it too, and shit this ain't no birthday party, be happy with the icecream in the bowl in front of ya.

I'm not here to rain on anyone's parade, but sheesh, shammy's are still one of the most powerful classes in this game, and just because you aren't unbalanced in your favor so significantly anymore, doesn't mean that a shaman is hurting by any means. I play a warrior, and a well played shaman in my group is always welcome, and unless the person has no clue how to play their toon, there is an EXTRAORDINARY difference between a buffbot shammy and a real live shammy in group. Sorry guys I just don't see it, the only real complaint i think you guys have is that your doggie needs a big DPS upgrade, there is NO reason in my mind for an SK or ENCH pet to out dps dog dog, its just ludicrous the move sony made in letting shaman pets stagnate so much while giving huge boosts to ench and sk's. At the very least the three should be on par IMO. IDK this expansion seems to be a great leveling field, the shamans and zerkers see the stagnation as nerfs, but really its just that these two classes alone excelled above and beyond a level of "balance" with the other classes, and needed to be brought into line with everyone else. It never feels good to be in that situation, but come on, be realistic and realize you've had it good for so long, and be happy that other classes you group with are going to be contributing equally to what you are to your groups progression whatever that may be.

Sorry for the long windedness, but have been watching this thread a few days and finally couldn't stand not saying anything any longer and felt I had to chime in. Feel free to comment, flame whatever it is ya want to do, more than willing to backup my statements with fact, and if proven wrong I'll admit it, but I have very strong anectdotal evidence from my experiences in the world of Norrath. Shammy's kick ass, nough said.

[Brohg]

In any context that atk debuffs lose value, slow is just as extraneous. Against anything that needs debuffing, atk debuffs are each more powerful than slow, stack four deep, and come with side benefits like -ac that boost dps against the mob.

[Cromagnon]

Brohg, thats just ridiculous to claim that an attack debuff is more powerful than a slow, I play a tank, I know what the difference is between having a slow on the mob and attack debuffs, and I'm telling you even on a red con mob, that the slow is what i'm looking for to stick, not the attack debuffs. Attack debuffs smooth out the spike dmg, the slows lessen incoming dmg by a set % (even mitigated). Raid content you might have more of a point as the fights are longer (and thus having to cast 5 spells to equal a slow classes 1 spell) and attack values for raid mobs are huge in comparison to the given armor class of the tank. This is the prime example of when an attack debuff is most useful, and it took the druid 5-6 casts to equal your 1 spell. Not to mention the fact on mobs with procs our attack debuffs don't touch them, while your slow limits delay and thus influences the attempted procs of the mob, plus the fact that cripple is also limiting NPC procs and affects NPC attack rating by debuffing base stats.

And the place where druids hurt the most in regards to their attack debuffs, lets say on greens/lblues, pulling swarms of mobs a 35% slow from lassitude is HUGELY noticeable at reducing incoming damage, even if i could place a similar defensive buff for attack debuff procs as a druid, there would be almost no difference as you are already trending to max minimum hits.

Its just ridiculous that you even compare druid attack debuffs to a shamans oh so powerful slow. Druids have had attack debuffs for ages, how often do you see them using said debuffs? Very irregularly. How often do you see shamans using their slow? It is considered one of the bread and butter lines that makes a shaman who they are.

Go talk to a SK who uses Willsapper, go talk to a warrior that uses his truncheon of doom, or any melee classes that can use fabled club of slime. 50% slow, 35% slow, and even 10% slow are HIGHLY noticeable when they stick. I definitely can say that I notice more of a difference on the 35% slow (even mitigated) compared with my druids attack debuffs all stacked on an even con mob (even con mob we'll consider as par for the course, the tanks armor class should be on par with the mobs attack value and in that case the hits should be tending towards the middle of the distribution curve).

[Cromagnon]

[Brohg]

[Kumudil]

[Kumudil]

Hope we are done with the ranting. Please back to the topic. What is the future of the shaman in the groupgame?

I think we agree in the following statements.

In the grougame a shaman should:
1. keeping up lynx and lassitude and champion on the group
2. Malo and slow the mob

Where we already differ in opinion is the following: makes it even sense to try to dps with the given tools?
I try to do so, because I want to contribute as much as I can to my groups sucess, others are already at the point to not even try anymore.

So the future is 2 Hotbuttons and take it lazy and let the others do the rest because anything more makes almost no difference?

In my usual group of friends playing the game there is a Cleric. Before someon mention to ditch him and try to mainheal to keep the game interesting, thats no option for me.

Not really appealing the picture I see here.

[Brohg]

I'd <3 unlinked Bites and instant cast curse dots, but I'm more robust against mana draining than most shm. I'm also more sanguine about shm current damage dealing ability. Sure we're better versus monsters with high hp, but whatever.

[Veril]

Cromagnon, here's some points you didn't consider
Slow is not a flat % damage reduction, it slows the attack speed of a mob. The mobs DPS is STILL as spikey as ever. Mob attack speeds are such that after the mitigated slow they still get in 2 rounds between shaman heals, and it's spikes that kill.

Slow does not affect numbers of procs mobs do. Procs are calculated per unit time, slowing the attack rate, means that the mob hits fewer times but still procs as much and therefore procs more per swing, increasing spikyness. As base reference to this, one that a warrior should know of I point out Earthshaker and Slow

Druids need 1-2 spells to achieve a greater DPS effect than Slow.

[Ughbash]

Won't speak to the differnce between slow and druid attack buffs, but give me two mage air pets over slwo any day of teh week.

As a "gimp tank" monk, I see less dps incoming when I have two mage air pets stunning the mob then I do with shaman slowing. Haven't tried this combination in the upper group zones, but it made Thralls, Korasicans and Prime MUCH easier in the warrens.

First time I tanked them I had a shaman slowing, second time I had no slow but 2 Mage pets. Mage pets made it much easier. Now don't get me wrong, I like slow adn consider it valuable. But now I am more likley to throw in an extra merc cleric then to bother to BOT a shaman and slow.

[Retron]

[Kumudil]

As Group-enhancing is the one thing we might still shine at, I wanted to know how much that would be:

Presumtion: base buffs anyone can get either from GL or one of the Bufbot-shaman any second meele seems to have avaiiable.
So took this as given base.

Some parses; Scope: Shaman Buffs, what do they do?
Lilamas lvl 80 against Testdummy lvl 90 in his back. Only Autoattack.
Buffs:
Consumed by the Hunt RKII (self offensive)
Protection of the Kirkoten RKII (self offensive+defensive)
Thundering Blades RKII (self offensive)
Eyes of the Peregrine (self archery + manareg)
Briarcoat (self defensive)

Form of Defense III (self clicky defensive)
Primal Guard (self clicky overhaste 5%)

Gallantry RKII (Cleric defensive)

Transcendent Forsight RKII (shaman defense part of Unity)
Mannoths Strenght RKII (shaman defense part of Unity)
Spirit of Determination RKII (shaman stamina + endurance of Unity)
Darkpaw Focusing RKII (shaman stats part of Unity)

Test 1: BASE Selfbuffs + Galla + Shaman Unity RKII + Haste 60%
Test Ninety on 04.06.2009 in 13572sec (approx 3,5h)
Total --- DMG: 12294226 (100%) @ 906 dps (906 sdps)
Lilamasx + pets --- DMG: 12294226 (100%) @ 906 dps (906 sdps)
Produced by GamParse v1.0.2

Test 2: Buffs from Test 1 + Champion
Test Ninety on 04.06.2009 in 3668sec (approx 60 min)
Total --- DMG: 3306165 (100%) @ 901 dps (901 sdps)
Lilamasx + pets --- DMG: 3306165 (100%) @ 901 dps (901 sdps)
Produced by GamParse v1.0.2

Test 3: Buffs from Test 1 + Champion + Lynx RKII
Test Ninety on 04.06.2009 in 1221sec (approx 20 min)
Total --- DMG: 1289648 (100%) @ 1056 dps (1056 sdps)
Lilamasx + pets --- DMG: 1289648 (100%) @ 1056 dps (1056 sdps)
Produced by GamParse v1.0.2

Conclusion: Champion is either broken or outgrown by the meeles without notice.
I will not mem it anymore until someone can provide me a reason why I should do so.
Lynx RKII produced an augmentation of 150 dps on Lilamas (dual wieling).

I had the feeling that those "big" group-enhancements are the reason of the continuous stagnation of the shaman class. I am not impressed by this parsings.


If one would like a comparison with one single spell of the chanter:
Mana Reiterate Rk. II
Slot 1: Add Spell Proc Mana Reiterate Strike (100% proc chance)
Slot 2: Limit: Only applied to spells with Spelltype: Detrimental
Slot 3: Limit: Only applied to spells with Effect Type: Hitpoints (Damage Spells / Heals)
Slot 5: Limit: Not applied to Spell Mana Reiterate Strike
Slot 6: Limit: Combat Skills Not Allowed
Slot 7: Limit: Only applied to spells up to level 100
Slot 8: Limit: Only applies to spells with a mana cost greater than 10

Mana Reiterate Strike
Slot 1: Decrease Hitpoints by 1368
Slot 2: 10% Chance to proc Spell Mana Re-Reiterate when cast.


Same Ranger Lilamas used for above parses could cast once every 2 seconds:
Summer's Viridity Rk. II
Slot 1: 100% Chance to proc Spell Summer's Viridity Burn when cast.
Slot 2: 100% Chance to proc Spell Summer's Viridity Splash when cast.
Slot 3: Increase Hate by 234
Slot 4: Increase Hitpoints by 0

which would trigger each time twice: Mana Reiterate Strike a 1368 DD

1368 DD * 2proccs per second / 2 seconds cylce time between 2 hits makes .... a theoretic max of 1368 dps having this single spell out of the arsenal of the chanter on one single target.
Even if this single Ranger is a layzy one (or fears he will gank aggro from the tank) casting only 5 times every 30 seconds he will have gained 456 dps from it.
Chanter declare they can easily keep it going on upto 6 targets (thanks prolongued duration and scrm) nowadays.

Not counted: Slot 2: 10% Chance to proc Spell Mana Re-Reiterate when cast.
Not counted: 2 auras running, one might be the twincast aura adding 10% dps to all Nuke damage of all pc within said aura.
Second aura .. don't know, whatever you want if it just does anything.


lets lurk over to the bards.
Bard may play 2 songs in their twist:
Aria of the Poet Rk.II
Slot 1: Increase Spell Damage by 33% (fixed)
Slot 2: Increase Attack Speed (Haste v3) by 25%
Slot 3: Limit: Only applied to spells with Effect Type: Hitpoints (Damage Spells / Heals)
Slot 4: Limit: Only applied to spells up to level 85 (lose 5% per level over cap)

25% overhaste + 33% spell damage enhancement (the overhaste does not stack with overhaste-clicky and away pulls it to the max of 25% but never above)

Arcane Arietta Rk.II
Slot 1: Add Spell Proc Arcane Arietta Effect (100% proc chance)
Slot 2: Limit: Only applied to spells with Effect Type: Hitpoints (Damage Spells / Heals)
Slot 3: Limit: Not applied to Spell Arcane Arietta Effect
Slot 4: Limit: Only applied to spells up to level 85
Slot 5: Limit: Only applied to spells with Spelltype: Detrimental
Slot 6: Limit: Combat Skills Not Allowed
Slot 7: Limit: Only applies to spells with a mana cost greater than 10
Slot 10: Add Proc: Arcane Blade Strike (400% proc rate modifier)

Arcane Arietta Effect
Slot 1: Decrease Hitpoints by 391

A pantherproc just not as strong as our lynx.

Who here really believes that shaman are still the best group-enhancer in game?
For caster and Hybrid in the Group-game for shure not true.
For meeles in the groupgame: would not bet a single cent on it.

For pure meele in the raiding game, where you stick the right classes together in dps-groups and let multiply the different class abilities eachother, very useful but best of all ... don't think so.

Berzerkers groupdisk, Ranges group abilities are all short time disks with recast as far as I know .. so wont coun't for my point of view.

Group-enhancing in the Group-game, I see the shaman on place 3.

What was the point where we shine at?
Ahh, jea we got an heal upgrade and now we can heal .. alomost as good as a healermerc, but not enought to really compete with one.


Where did we start at?
No 1 debuffer in game
No 1 group-enhancer in game
No 1 personal dps out of the priests

Where are we now:
No 4 debuffer
No 3 group-enhancer
No 2 personal dps of the priests

I don't think we are the class which is the worse of.
But I don't think either that we are in a good shape. Too much and too long stagnation + all the nerf stuff didn'd do any good to us.

[Finori]

The difference between and is 3%.
Slot 7: Increase All Skills Damage Modifier by 7%
vs.
Slot 4: Increase All Skills Damage Modifier by 10%

If the 906 dps from the first parse are pure melee DPS then an extra 27 DPS should have shown. Not sure where they are missing.
The 25% overhaste means 12.5% more melee DPS vs. 10% on Champion. Champion works on all skills, while haste only affects swings.

As you said Mana Reiterate is a single target spell vs. Lynx being a group target spell. Both are usable out of group. Arietta is only usable within group.

If you are talking raiding game then each group needs a healer for almost all fights. Shamans are the prime choice. You didn't mention the epic clicky, which plays a big role.

[Yesak]

[Kumudil]

I am aware of the spelldatas and expected something like a 3% increase of damage, the real parse shows 5 dps less instead.

The parse are autoattack only but not pure meele. I parsed in aktual best Weaponset (which has proccs) using also selfprocc-buffs, the weapons used are those on the magelo.

I know for theroretic results it would be better to have done also the second parse for maybe 4 ours.
The proccbuffs should have been of and also Weapons should have been without any proccs.
So a hardcore-parser might consider my parses invalid.

I am more of the practical side.
If even a one ours parse under "realfight"-setting can't show any evidence of improvement, this spell doesn't merit a Spellgem.


For the epic click-effect:
If atleast 3 main schaman here post a guess of what kind of dps they would expect from the Epic 2.0 click on Lilamas, I will deliver a parse and show the reality.