? regarding Shaman Slowability

[Wulfquas]

Hello I have been browsing these forums for quiet some time, just never really got around to registering now. But I have not been able to find anything regarding my question. So here it goes. I am just curious if anyone could lay out a quick overview of slows for me. I have noticed like Turgur's Insects is like a 75% slow and then there are higher lvl ones that are less but may add to Disease counter etc, but what I am wondering is when and where are the best times to use like the AE Slows I am capable of using and other ones that are lower % of slow etc etc. I am a lvl 61 shaman if you need to know.

Thanks in advance,
Wulfquas Soulvoker

[Unmei]

AoE slows are, perhaps obviously, used primarily when you need to slow multiple targets in a big hurry. The Targetted AoE slow (Tigir's) only hits 4 targets, so if there's more than that in the vicinity, it's not particularly effective. It's also a little long on the casting time, and has no resist modifier. Starting at 70 with Vindictive Spirit, you get a fast casting Point Black AoE slow that procs a damage absorbing buff on you when you cast it. It's very handy for situations with large numbers of targets incoming, to buy you time while you apply a 'real' slow, but the duration/recast keep it from being chain cast.

[Funi]

This is my opinion and my opinion alone but I think the best time to use Vindictive Spirit is when you are over powered for the area and are playing around. Going off memory it fades supper supper quick and there is no way possible to get a "real" slow on say 3 mobs once you've cast this spell. The problem with that is you'll be spending all your time spam healing yourself from all the aggro and mobs pounding on you so chances are small you'll get a "real" slow on anything before you're dead. You're way better off just casting our buff slow proc line until you get a "real" slow on. And the auto heal over time can help mitigate some damage making up a small % of the 25% slow.

Also, when comparing the % slow remember there is no such thing as a 75% slow unless you're running around in old world stuff in which case Vindictive Spirit is great to play with. With all slows being mitigated the % of slow is much much closer between the lines of slow than you might think. For instance your 75% slow is closer to 35% to 40% for partially slowed mobs.

[Unmei]

I find Funi's opinion to be at odds with mine; The times I've used Vindicite Spirit on my shaman were when the content was -dangerous-. The 18 second duration is plenty for getting slow on at least a couple of mobs, depending on what spells/AAs you have available for use, and you can also VP punt one of the slowed mobs out of camp during cooldowns. Additionally, it seems to be fairly low aggro - it was rare that I got aggro from using it, even on essentially unengaged mobs. (Though it helps to be using Lassitude, but that's not a substitute for this spell.) Add in the damage absorb component and you're likely to come out just fine unless the content is way out of your league.

Vindictive Spirit is a waste in easy content, because you're not in any hurry and frankly there are probably better things you could do with that spell gem.

[Grammaw]

My experience with Vindictive seems to fall more in line with Unmei's experience. With a cast time of under 2 seconds, you can slow several mobs at once (for a short time). Then you can hammer the real slows out...Turgurs/balance/aa slow and get a number of critters slowed for real. Additionally in some raid/ring/circle events 2-3 shammies slowing is this manner can be a terrific tool for when adds are scripted to pop.

To break down our slow lines for you:

Turgurs line (Turgurs and aa Tururs swarm):
75% slow, long lasting (6-7 mins) small resist modifiers (can bounce a bit, improved somewhat with aa slow)

Balance line (Balance of Nihil and Discord)
Similar to Turgurs line, 75% slow but last about 90 seconds and have a good resist check (will land a lot more frequently). Fast casting.

Targetted AoE (Tigirs and aa Tigirs)
50% slow, hits one target, and up to 3 others around your target. Slow casting, and you are a valid target for the splash. 3-4 min duration.

Point-blank AoE slow line (Tortugones. Vindictive spirit, etc)
Don't need to switch targets, or even have one, slow is targetted from your body and affects anyone in range, can affect anyone in that area, no limit to number of MoBs. Fast casting, but lasts only 3 tics. Adds a damage absorber to you (minor but helpful) Slow % is..50% I think.

Disease based slow (pretty much Cloud of Grummus)
40% slow, long cast time 3-4 min duration. Targets disease resist not Magic. Useful an a small number of antiquated encounters. Mem this rarely.

Lassitude line (Languor etc)
This is a buff you cast on yourself or other friendlies. When a critter hits someone who has this buff on, the critter has a chance to be slowed (40%) for a few tics, and the person with the buff on has a chance to have a HoT placed on them. This line was game-changing for me. Keep this on yourself, the beef, and the wizzy/'Zerker who does not know the term "aggro management". Saves on mana and rez effects.

Hungry Plague Unique
This is a viral slow, meaning you cast it on a MoB, and any MoB he gets close to will get it as well. Bunches of critters in the same place together will keep infecting each other, potentially meaning 1 slow can be kept going nearly indefinately, if worked right. Potentially very high aggro.


7 slow lines, so make sure you have the right tool(s) for the right job.

[Kumudil]

When out with group, hunting new content / dungeons I have the PBAE slow always memmed and no other slow. MT and puller in group is a paladin. Rarely I pull any attention of a mob when firing off this PBAE slow. You will have no resists and 3 tics time, to handle the crowd. VP off one, maybe try to malis and root off another one if you feel like, or start to Turgur the mobs. I think I never died just because I fired the PBAE, but I die once a while short after using it , thats usually after the MT went down and the quantity of mobs has just been to much for the group.
I am convinced the likehood that you and/or the group survives a bad pull is much higher using it than to try to handle the mobs in another way (when there is no cc-class around).

[Funi]

Very interesting thoughts here, I may have to try this line again. I just remember long ago when these came out getting tons of mobs on me every time I cast it. The last time I used it was during the "light the torches" event in TSS and I got lots of mobs on me even then but I was at a point where it didn't bother me much getting all that aggro.

[dakirra]

According to the EQ boards many people no longer bother with slow. You simply use 2 clerics, can both even be mercs. Pretty sad really.

[Yesak]

Many people arent using real clerics anymore either. Just pop a merc and about half the time they function better than an actual player. But that shouldnt kill cleric usage and I dont think it matters much that people ignore slow. Let me explain.

First, if you have 2 clerics instead of a cleric and a shaman, you are losing a LOT of DPS. Particularly if you are heavy on the melee DPS. If you have, say a pally or SK and a bunch of wizards, maybe our added DPS is negligible. It is my general experience that people are really scared of wiping and would rather overload healers than get good DPS. I still think DPS is the most important part of a good group. Sure, you can't have a group without tank and healer but you can get by with a subpar tank if you're killing fast enough and can spend the time healing tank instead of having to DPS (nuke or DoT) ourselves. We can also deal with a subpar healer if DPS is good. Less time tanking = less heals.

I realize that this view is rather old school, as is my major complaint of healers relying too much on big, fast heals that drain their mana. Most healers have to med every 20 minutes at most. They dont even use CH and I find it incredibly annoying (as a shaman) to have to sit there with almost full mana and wait for the cleric. In fact, I get so annoyed at times that I get a tank, 4 of the best melee DPS (or any DPS) I can find and just heal myself if I can get away with it (need a pretty solid tank).

A question to people who have used 2 clerics in 1 group. Why do you do it? What is the motivation? I have been in groups like this and it annoys me so much because the DPS is just HORRID.

[Veril]

A shaman should never have to wait while the cleric meditates for mana.

You should be healing more, so that the cleric is healing less.