The Spirit Realm

It was brought to my attention tonight that Champion may finally be place in the back of the spell book where it belongs after these long years....
With level 90 and the inflated Attack, 140 doesn't seem to make much of a difference (3kish unbuffed). Starting with Rank II of Mammoth's Force, the DMG Modifier is the same as Champion and is better than Champion with Rank III (11% v. 10% on Champ). And because AGI, STR, DEX does NOT increase the cap, any t4 hot gear melee should be well over the cap.

Here is the spell info from Lucy's. Now I'm wondering if there is something that I am missing, like the fact the Champion is Slot 3, and Mammoth's is Slot 7. I'm not sure if that matters and I am not fully versed in what that truly means.
Champion:
3: Increase ATK by 140
4: Increase All Skills Damage Modifier by 10%
5: Increase AGI by 140
6: Increase STR by 140
7: Increase DEX by 140


Mammoth's Force Rk. II
7. Increase All Skills Damage Modifier by 10%
Mammoth's Force Rk. III
7: Increase All Skills Damage Modifier by 11%

(No searching I did showed new HoT level Mammoth's Force compared to Champion, although there were several still asking to be rid of Champion...)

I agree with you, but sometimes melee type ask me for champion...

The real question is however is how much the extra attack matters with attack levels reaching as high as they are and when you compare them to other attack buffs.

I don't know how to parse that, or I'd be all over it. Even if the effect is negligible, there are still melee dps who will demand Champion for even the slightest edge.

Well it doesn't really make much sense to me, as Champion is used outside of raids. The difference should be evident - naked toon, Champion only, Mammoth's Force only. But again, parsing noob.

To do a 10 hour parse you have to do a /testcopy.

That makes a copy of yoru character on the test server. If you go to the arena on test server you can spawn "Test dummies" for parsing. You can also have them "freeze your buffs" so they do not expire when parsing. This lets you do for example a 10 hour parse where Shaman epic is running the entire time.

I generally will spawn them in a corner Facing the corner and then attack them from behind so they do not get pushed out of range.

If I get a chance this weekend I will run a couple parses with my monk.

One with and one without champion, with shaman epic and speed focus since really most melee are concerned about burn DPS on raids.

So... 16dps ish times 5 melee in my group means I'm getting the raid 80 DPS for that spell slot?

Let's say 160dps including a bunch of pets. Still not worth my time I'd say.

I wouldn't want Champion to overwrite Mammoth's Force rk 3.

Who still got only rk1 ? Dont bother with that...

i simply refuse to mem champ anymore and the only person how has argued with me about it is a bard who used to play a shaman when it was a viable spell after i explained mammoths now gives the same mods and dps from attack increase would be very neglible and the spell gem was better used for a healing spell to keep his butt alive he quit argueing

Tordail,

No problem will post the results here. I have a shambot (with 2.0) to do the parses on it.

Mobrak,

Thats why I am going to parse it. If as the previous parse shows 16 dps then even me as a melee would have to say umm go ahead and drop it. If however its a couple hundred dps (when burning) then I will continue to ask for it.

However lets do a little math exercise here. At 16 dps with 5 melee you are talking 80 dps. The spell lasts about 13 minutes (least I seem to remeber seeing 13 min when my shambot cast it). 13 x 60 x 80 = 62,400 damage from one spell..... Thats almost up in wizard range for single click.