Shaman Rank 1's with bad drop locations

[Unmei]

I'm taking the dev's word for this and assuming that rank1 drop rates are consistant-ish between spells and that really it's just the locations that vary.

So. Which shaman rank 1s have lousy drop locations?

I -know- that Ancestral Intervention is terrible. (Kirathas elves) And I believe that Languor is in the same area. Bite of the Brownie is also pretty annoying, being on Crypt Ghouls.

Cougar, on the other hand, drops like candy in Loping Plains. I have no idea where Preincarnation comes from.

So. Fill me in. I'm trying to track down where all the annoying rank1s are.

[Finori]

I thought that AI was the 2nd easiest to get. Not sure why you call it terrible. According to Magelo becomes from S.H.I.P.

[Unmei]

[Vasei]

*cough* She. /grin

Hills of Shade is fairly sucky (or impossible, I've been entirely unsuccessful so far) to solo in non-raid gear. I'm assuming that was the goal of Rank 1's... that's the drop spell for the non-raid crowd? Bite of the Brownie is worse - those crypt ghouls being level 81+, and 1 rounding me.

[Brohg]

How you take hits at all soloing HoS is beyond me.

[Veril]

Crypt Ghouls: Cast HoT on yourself first. Pull with Malis, from max distance, AA slow as they run towards you. That should do it. Just have to channel through a root or VP while they give you a beating.

[dohrian]

[Vasei]

[Unmei]

[Vasei]

[Unmei]

[Funi]

If it doesn't summon it can be solo'd. I think there is a lot out there that can be solo'd. I for one accidentally pulled 4 mobs in HoS and with a bit of time was able to solo them. It wasn't fun but I was able to do it. And for that matter just ask the Necors. I can image they are having a blast this expansion.

[Vasei]

[Unmei]

Sorry guys, but "Content that you or I or joebob the necromancer happens to be able to solo" is in no way the same as "Content designed for solo play". They are in no way interchangable, and I think you'll find a large number of dev statements to support me on that.

The devs do not go out of their way (all the time) to squelch soloing, but they also do not go out of their way to design soloable content. You are not "supposed" to be able to solo for your spells. You may be able to, but you are not entitled. A spell that you are unable to solo for is "tough luck buddy", not a problem.

[Vasei]

You can call it "content designed for solo play" or you can call it "content that's easily soloable because it's too hard to turn on the Can_Summon flag" - it's semantics. Since we're talking only about shaman spell drops, I think it's a fair term to use for spells that a shaman can solo.

You've gone from "I don't think you're intended to solo your spells" to "You are not "supposed" to be able to solo for your spells." in fairly short order. You must have some pretty specific dev quotes. I'd be interested to see this "large number of dev statements". From sometime in the last year, please. There isn't much about EQ that hasn't changed in the last year.

Of course, I'm kind of confused as to why you zeroed in on the word "soloing" with such venom - the whole reason I used it was as a relative measure of difficulty. As in "Rank 1 of spell X is so simple, even an embarrassingly undergeared shaman can solo it," vs. "Rank 1 of spell Y is challenging enough that my group wiped repeatedly trying to kill the mobs." The point is that the Rank 1 spells were given the lowest number for a reason, yet there are a lot of Rank 2 spells that are far simpler to acquire than some Rank 1 spells - which one would THINK runs contrary to the intent. Unless there's some other reason they chose those numbers (flavor or texture, I suppose).

I suppose we could get back on topic by saying that the relative difficulty of obtaining a couple of the Rank 1 spells is far outside the norm considering the difficulty of the majority of Rank 1 spell drop locations. In particular, the two crypt ghoul drops (Rolist's Drowse and Bite of the Brownie) - I'll take people's word for the HoS drops not being that bad.

[Unmei]

You can call it semantics if you want, but one is "deliberately designed with soloing in mind" and the other is "didn't go out of the way to cripple soloing". And if you think every non-summoning mob in SoF is soloable, well...heh.

Anyway, I pounce because "what a shaman can solo" isn't at all relavant to whether a spell drop is difficult or not. Nevermind. I've given up on this project anyway, since no one is capable of remotely agreeing on anything surrounding it.

[Funi]

I honestly think you're arguing for arguing sake here. If the content is soloable by a Shaman then it is soloable content when speaking on the Shaman boards. If I where to go onto the Warriors boards and claim that because a mob doesn't summon then it's soloable by default I'd be thrown off the boards. I shouldn't have to be politically correct in regards to all classes when I'm making a post on the Shaman boards. And I hope I'm not held to that standard here. I rather enjoy making a general statement and be understood by my fellow Shaman without going into grand detail with big words and definitions and such...

[Unmei]

The point has nothing do with the fact that shamans happen to be able to solo some of their spells. The point is that just because something can't be soloed doesn't automatically make it "too hard."

[Vasei]

[Brohg]

I've never seen Unmei employ an argument based on Straw Man fallacy. Link please?

[Unmei]

[Vasei]

[Unmei]

[Bigcat Daddy-o]

[Brohg]

There's no straw man here. Straw man fallacy is committed when the arguer distorts (often fabricates independently) the position of their opposition, and then attacks the unsound position they themselves set up. The name comes from the analogy of building a man made of straw just so you can lop his head off with a stick instead of a sword.

The sentiment Unmei responded to, on the other hand, can be seen to employ one of several fallacies. Take your pick - ignoratio elenchi, red herring, false dichotomy - just to list the informal ones.

[Bigcat Daddy-o]

[Veril]

argueing about argueing

one of the most pointless things to do.

still this lets me up my post count, which is somewhat preversly even less pointless

[Vasei]

[Unmei]

[Vasei]

[fendaann]

I wanted to post what spells you post is asking about.
Sorry I dont have much to add I truely have not tried to group for any specifcly other then being luck and grouping in loping at the orcs the 1week SOF opened and got me the Puma and a 2nd puma that night.

Shaman
Talisman of the Puma - orcs in Loping Plains (got)
Languor - kirathus in Hills of Shade (got from guildee)
Rolist's Drowse - ghouls in Hills of Shade (got from guildee)
Ancestral Intervention - kirathus in Hills of Shade
Bite of the Brownie - ghouls in Hills of Shade
Ward of Resurgence - steamworks in Steam Factory
Preincarnation - minos in S.H.I.P.

[Unmei]

[Sowslow]

[quote="fendaann"]I wanted to post what spells you post is asking about.
Sorry I dont have much to add I truely have not tried to group for any specifcly other then being luck and grouping in loping at the orcs the 1week SOF opened and got me the Puma and a 2nd puma that night.

Shaman
Talisman of the Puma - orcs in Loping Plains (got)
Languor - kirathus in Hills of Shade (got from guildee)
Rolist's Drowse - ghouls in Hills of Shade (got from guildee)
Ancestral Intervention - kirathus in Hills of Shade
Bite of the Brownie - ghouls in Hills of Shade
Ward of Resurgence - steamworks in Steam Factory
Preincarnation - minos in S.H.I.P.[/quote]

I don't have/never got:
Languor - kirathus in Hills of Shade
Rolist's Drowse - ghouls in Hills of Shade
Bite of the Brownie - ghouls in Hills of Shade
Ward of Resurgence - steamworks in Steam Factory
Preincarnation - minos in S.H.I.P.

They were in "lousy drop locations" or I would rather spend my time working on RK 2. For some reason HoS, is just not a zone I have grouped/soloed in much, which mostly explains why I never got those. The other 2 are either horribly bad drops or I am just extremely unlucky as I have been to those zones enough I would think they would drop, maybe conservatively speaking around 50-75hrs in each zone. Or maybe I just missed them because I don't think they are very useful. Also, those are 2 I don't have RK 2 for yet either.

[Brohg]

Rank 1 spell drops are more specific than zones. You could well spend 1000 hours "in The Steam Factory" and not get Ward of Resurgence, if you're not in the right camp.