Where do we stand?

[Warpeace]

Looking for opinions on where we stand against other tanks in tanking ability and DPS.

Seeing there is no clear answer where a Paladin should be tanking and DPS wise I am going to ask. Tanking I know we should always be below a Warrior…where do we rank against Shadow knights, not looking for any envy here. Also where do we stand DPS wise compared to the other tanks, understanding Warrior DPS is supposed to be the base line for DPS here if I understand it correctly. I understand the difference between raiders and groupers. How does this affect us as a class? The one curve I see is the 7th year vet reward (reuse timer?) that puts those above others when it comes to adjustments in our DPS.
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/ states a Paladin is a Hybrid Cleric/Warrior. A holy knight who tanks well, stuns foes, and can heal allies or self more effectively than any other non-priest class, particularly in emergencies. Capable of dealing tremendous damage to the undead. Anyone know what SOE’s official position is on this, where do we fit in as a class? Healing and curing I think we are doing well on when not tanking. Allakhazam also says we are able to generate AE AGGRO I am missing something there as I only get AE Aggro from casting too many large single target or group heals with multiple mobs around. It’s not on demand.
With mudflation of mob hit points are we the top DPS class for undead mobs? If not what could we ask for or what can we get to make us deal tremendous damage to the undead. I think we are decent at it now, but still a bit low.
As a class that had Blade of Forgotten Faith (Anguish) with a proc of Cleansing of Marr: Increase Hit points by 225: Decrease Poison Counter by 5: Decrease Disease Counter by 5 why are there not more weapons currently available with this as a class weapon?? Why the rune? Would this not make us more desirable for groups/raids?
What can we do or like to see to improve the class?

[varutia]

There are just way too many questions mashed into a single post, you do well to split them up into different paragraphs.

From my personal view point, we are ok, not bad but could be better consider the amount of nerfs we got hit with recently dps wise.

Tanking I am pretty happy, no major problem, on lower to mid end, SK probably tank the best out of three tanking class due to their life leech stuff, on top end there really isn't that much difference, all three are great group tanks. Raid tanking you need warriors, no change there as well.

DPS we pretty at bottom of barrel in melee classes, no news here, so move on, however if you actually work on it, you can do semi decent.

We have not been top dps on undead for ages.

Beacon of righthous for on demand ae agro.

The one hander for knights are considered primarily as tanking weapon, rune is the best tanking proc and also acts as pretty ok ae aggro. Small heal and cure proc does pretty much nothing these days with inflated hps for everyone, also the nature of a proc means it can not be relied upon for heal and cure purpose. A lot of encounters you also do not want to cure stuff, so not a good proc to use these days.

[shiftie]

This is too much of a loaded question to answer with any kind of certainty. Any direct answer to these questions will give other classes cannon fodder when it comes time for balancing. I feel like this is a troll post and I should ignore it but I'll humor you... (all of this is raid guesstimates)

Tanking - all 3 tanks are similar in current group content, as you start to fight lower con mobs paladins/sk's gain an advantage. If the target can be stunned paladins pull ahead by a large margin - which is something that shouldn't happen to the degree that it does. Unfortunately the last expansion wasn't very difficult so warriors basically got crapped on. Each class has strengths and weaknesses in group content but it is all content dependent and answers will be very subjective depending on who is posturing for an upgrade. My honest answer is that the tank doesn't matter in the group game so long as they can hold aggro, which is why you end up with monks and rangers tanking.

Raid tanking balance is out of whack. Warriors have been crapped on with easier content. They are still the preferred raid tank but knights can and do step in. The only problem with this is that knights bring utility and warriors do not which in my opinion is what should be remedied. Requiring warriors to raid tank is kind of an all or nothing scenario as highlighted by the UF and HoT expansions. Require war defensive to last against a mob boss and knights are useless in attempts to stand in and tank as things go bad. Remove the requirement for warrior defensive and warriors have little else to do. When warrior def is required you end up with 8 warriors on a roster just to balance the raid night vs their disc timers and it is seriously stupid.

DPS - the verdict is still out on burst dps. In group settings pre paladin nerf sustained had pal/sk = hovering around 9k but this is largely dependent on the group (bard/sham) and how many mobs are being pulled at once. There is no clear way to parse pal/sk dps without all of the context which cannot be properly reviewed so a best guess is all you will get. Warriors pre nerf were doing about 11k iirc with bard/sham and in raid gear (able to use offensive discs instead of defensive).

If you want autoattack dps wars will remain ahead of sk/pal but add in spells and it is anyones guess at this point until real parsing has been done post warrior nerf. Good luck trying to parse all this though.

Your comment about warrior baseline dps = autoattack and nothing else. There is too much synergy going on right now and too many post expansion nerfs.

Paladins are a hybrid Warrior/Cleric not the other way around and that is a big difference. If it were cleric/warrior we would have gotten spells at level 1 instead of 9 when the game launched. Saying it in reverse order is selling the class short of our melee and tanking attributes. Please refrain from repeating it that way.

No we are not the top on undead mobs, we were then we got nerfed. It will take a rework of some things to see this come to pass in any way that doesn't infringe on our live dps which is why we got nerfed not too long ago.

BoFF is a horrible design because it is a proc and can't be relied on, as such rune is the best bang for your buck. In current content devs create debuff counters that kill you if cured as a part of raid design. Implementing a weapon like this would be a death wish. It was also bad for itemization. It is far better to share a loot table with sk's then hope for a paladin only weapon. If the devs decide to do a weapon or quest trade in system then I could see this as being ok but not with the BoFF proc.

The class is in the best shape it has been in a very long time. There are several areas that could use tweaking but to say we are hurting would be a gross understatement and is usually made by players who don't know the class well.

[Warpeace]

I will have to invest the AA into Becon of the Righteous. Looks like up to 3000 hate generated at the top end of it and should be fun to play around with.

[Boleslav]

Shiftee,

What a well reasoned and calm response to that question!


Warpeace

Also, we get Ageless Emnity as an AE Aggro ability.