Rng/Shm or SK/Shm

[the_exile]

A friend and I quit EQ to play Vanguard a while back, we're returning now and decided to start new toons and use our old mains only to farm as we level the new toons. We're going to be a pretty close duo team for dungeons, gearing up, and as many group quests as we can pull off as a duo - with the ultimate goal of getting back into end-game raiding. So, I'm coming to y'all to get some advice on which class to duo with my friend's shammy. I narrowed my choices down to SK and RNG. I would have said SK hands down but with the DPS nerfs coming down on SKs I thought the ranger might be a better option. Any thoughts, ideas or suggestions on the matter would be greatly appreciated.

It is possible that we would both be two boxing, in which case he would be playing a Shammy + alt(reccomendations?) and I would have an SK + alt(reccomendations?)

Thank you for your time!

[Khauruk]

Sk + cleric
Mage + sham

if both 2boxing.

If just a duo...hrmm...hard choice. I'm doing ranger w/ sham right now, and it rocks. But, to do lots of quests etc,...Sk would probably be better - you can just add dps and/or cleric to do lots of stuff.

[Macnair]

[Kianor]

Since you said it's a straight choice of SK or Ranger, I'm not going to suggest anything else.

To be honest, either works well with a shaman. I won't recommend one over the other, but some strengths and weaknesses. I've duoed a lot with rangers in the past, and they're not great tanks, but they're not bad either. They need decent gear to tank well, but they have good agro and good dps. For average content, what they lack in tanking, they make up for in killing stuff fast. At lower levels, rangers have some outdoor pulling tools too, which can make things easier. A ranger also has nice buffs that complement shaman buffs well. At later levels, the ranger gets archery AAs that can make him a decent box class to stick on autofire and forget.

However, an SK is a better tank. There will be things that you can tank with an SK that you can't tank with a ranger of similar gear. An SK also has split pulling abilities which can be very helpful.

Also, if you're planning on grouping up at some point, an SK/shaman duo is probably a better basis for a group - you already have 2 of the key roles there (out of slower/healer/tank). In terms of finding 4 pickup people to fill out the group, it's typically easier to find a dps /lfg than a tank.

In terms of your 2 boxing 4 toon group, there are lots of viable combinations. I would suggest adding a cleric because then you always have the best healing, buffs and a rez, and you never have to look for a cleric to do certain things. Though it will slow down killing on other things where shaman healing is sufficient. Also, for the 2 boxers, casters are easier to box than melees, because you don't need to worry as much about positioning.

Here's a few suggestions:
SK/shaman/cleric/wizard - best slow, good tank, good buffs, best healing, best rez, ok dps, evac
SK/shaman/druid/necro - best slow, good tank, ok buffs, good healing, rez, good dps, evac
Ranger/shaman/paladin/wizard - best slow, good tank, ok buffs, ok healing, rez, good dps, evac

Things like evac/port and rez aren't essential by any means, but they do make your group more self sufficient. Rez means fewer summoning and asking around in Guild Lobby. Ports still make travel quicker (and cheaper) and evac means less recovery time if things go bad.

There are lots of other combinations that would work well, but maybe I've helped you think about what you want from the group a bit too.

[the_exile]

Hmm...

Great input altogether...

The buddy and I decided on both of us 2-boxing. We both used to 3-box via alt-tabbing on a single pc but neither of us wants to play that hardcore again(yet...) so we've narrowed it down to 2 options as we see it, let me know thoughts:

SK/SHM/BER/CLR
PAL/SHM/RNG/MNK

[Kianor]

[Khauruk]

[quote]Hmm...
SK/SHM/BER/CLR[/quote]
Pretty decent - both of you can duo when the other's not on (assuming each is playing one healer), good dps, decent pulls, and an offtank. You could kill some serious shit with this, and go so far as endgame group gear. (A friend of mine has done just that w/ sk/shm/clr/mag) I'd seriously look at swapping mage in for zerker - you get a better offtank in the air pet, decent dps still (he averages 1300-1500dps in Crystallos w/ a few hundred AAs), and most importanly, CoH. It really helps an SK out a lot with breaking a camp (at which point pulling becomes trivial). And it still gives you a target for group Puma. Or put the monk here for still good dps, and faster pulls.

[quote]PAL/SHM/RNG/MNK[/quote]
I'm curious why you put ranger in here? It won't do much dps from archery (if you're looking for fire-and-forget dps), won't tank much better than monk. Is it just for the snares? If so, I'd look at putting a necro in instead. Better dps, better soloability, and gives backup rezzer/easy movement to hard camps through flopping/rez if necessary.

This one is overall probably weaker, thought faster killing (esp. on undead), and faster pulls. Not as good if whoever doesn't have the healer is on alone.

Either way, you can go far w/ either...but, the first set will go further.

[Arrturis]

to add on to what khauruk just said...mages are arguably the best group dps at the moment.

[Macnair]

[MiniChu]

As being a Ranger with a shammy box, and knowing an SK with a shammy box (often, we group together :p) really well, I'll just give my 2cp on the original question:

In terms of playing it safe/doing somewhat harder stuff: SK/SHM
In terms of playing it risky/doing hard stuff the fun way: RNG/SHM
In terms of power: I'd say both are equal; but unless you know the ranger class well, I'd suggest the SK/SHM combo. Not that I am tooting my own horn here, but Ranger's does take more effort to safely pull; but can be done if you what you are doing. Shaman is an excellent healer; but you have to be sharp when tanking as ranger, using what AA's, spells and abilities you've got to help the shammy keep you alive. In the RNG/SHM combo I more often than not, find myself in situations where I rely on my DPS getting them down, before they get me down - as I know the shammy simply wont be able to keep me alive forever. To me that is exciting; but it is not the "safe tanking scenario" that SK/SHM provides.
In terms of fun: RNG/SHM - but that's just me, playing a ranger since '99 - I'm bound to be biased here :p



Oh... and if there's ONE thing I'd want from the SK/SHM combo to my own RNG/SHM combo? AE Taunt... 90% of the time I wipe myself, it is due to adds and the Ranger's lack of keeping multiple mobs' attention while keeping DPS up.

[Naluken]

Hehe. Aye, AE taunt is awesome I have a ranger on the same account as my SK, but he is only lvl 67, one of these days I will level him up some more

[Opfor]

[Macnair]

If you want to make the point that a shadowknight is a better tank than a ranger or a pet, you probably won't find anyone to disagree with you.

Still. The original poster's question was about two guys starting from scratch, so talking about swarm pets and epic 2.0 is making an argument based on where they eventually hope to be, instead of helping them figure out how to get there.

And the reason I suggested those four categories was to recognize that not all named are equally hard. Along the way, the two of them will face summoning boss mobs that they can beat without a plate tank. So if they pick a SK as one of their toons, that gives them more tanking than they need, and they pay for that by having less dps -- not only for that encounter, but all the time.

[Fandele Longtooth]

Duo, SK + SHM, no question in my mind.
1) superior tanking
2) sk pet makes an extra panther target
3) FD pulling, and if you ever get the shaman ring from PoSky, the two of you can run deep in somewhere and feign instead of clearing for hours and stuggling to stay ahead of respawn. It's fun. I've done it
4) Gear. Instead of 2 chain classes, you'll have something to use all the plate drops for.

The dps disparity between ranger and SK isn't as big as you'd expect in a group setting. I parse my guild xp groups a lot and what I'm used to seeing is shd (2.0) 550 dps + 100 pet dps =`650, and ranger (2.0+crystallos axe) = 900. This is sustained over 2-3 hours.

[MiniChu]