1h vs 2h for Slay Undead (Pelor, 8/2/06)

[Valya Wanderfoot]

1HS VS 2HS For Slay Undead
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note: moved 9/24/06 when old PON boards came back up briefly.- val


Pelor
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:21 pm Post subject: 1HS VS 2HS For Slay Undead Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Basically what I am asking is I am seeing a trend were I get more slays with my BoFF then I do with my 2.0. Now if you look at my magelo I have all the melee aas. So in my mind I gain more atk out of the 2.0. Also have Fero 5 and Cleave 5 and Max atk but not so high on Accuracy. I crit from alot high when I use the 2.0 but I crit more consistanly with the BoFF. Any info so i can undrstand this? Also I just recently downloaded Yalp. I am trying to figure out how to use it to parse my dps and compare the two.
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Galelor
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: 1HS VS 2HS For Slay Undead Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Pelor wrote:
Basically what I am asking is I am seeing a trend were I get more slays with my BoFF then I do with my 2.0. Now if you look at my magelo I have all the melee aas. So in my mind I gain more atk out of the 2.0. Also have Fero 5 and Cleave 5 and Max atk but not so high on Accuracy. I crit from alot high when I use the 2.0 but I crit more consistanly with the BoFF. Any info so i can undrstand this? Also I just recently downloaded Yalp. I am trying to figure out how to use it to parse my dps and compare the two.


i always use a 1 hander if i want real dps on the undead. however, i don't have the 2 hand dps AAs yet. I do find i get more slays with 1 handers, but they are also generally faster than 2 handers (getting more rounds in per minute.) you would have to parce to see if you are doing more dps via 1 hander or 2 hander when it comes to slays.
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Luthair
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:16 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Ignoring AAs, I would expect the weapon with the best ratio to be the best slay weapon as the damage bonus would be <1% of a max slay.
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Carmaris
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:38 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
More swings = more chances to slay. I don't have a decent one-hander right now, so I go two handed. Choices there are SEWS and Fabled Tantor Tusk. Tusk scores bigger slays, but SEWS scores significantly more--I'm definitely doing more DPS with the SEWS than the Tusk vs undead.
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emandes
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:18 am Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
@pelor - I have like you 2.0 and BoFF and all AA set
my DPS with 2.0 is significant higher allthough it is slower.

2.0 (with dmg+5 augment) normally (40-50%) hits for 738 and I have a lot of doubles and tripples. Crits are up to 2k (mostly if I have champion buffed).
Slays are mostly 13k-ish

BoFF (agro-augmented) has a wider spread of hits and hits mostly 200-300 with significant less doubles and tripples - crits for 1.2k slays for 9k max but often slays only 6k or less.

I soloed the undeads in arcstone for aprx. 100 AAs and I stopped using BoFF and used 2.0 cause I made more kills over time and needed less healpotions (even with boff+shield = 150 AC+)

I will log slays from all pallys next Draygun fight - some use their BoFF (offtanking) and some their 2.0 (dpsing) - should result in some information.
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varutia
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:07 am Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Like Luthair said, performance of slay is weapon ratio dependant, use the best ratio weapon you have and should result in best dps from slay. Majority of time people would have better ratio 2 hander than 1 hander available to them in conjuction with the 2 hand dps aa, equivalent 2 hander weapon will easily out dps 1 hander on live or dead mobs.
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khrokhro
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:31 am Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I once did a parse with boff on Vule, while I tend to use exclusively epic2 with +4 damage aug. I have big variance across all my vule parses (8-10 fights), but the BoFF one was by far the lowest DPS of all. Same thing on arcstone undeads or WoS murks, I kill much less mobs /hour using boff vs epic2.

I end up barely ever using boff+shield (it's the "im gonna tank a mini" config) as on most content I do not need the improved mitigation of shield and the added DPS is significant.
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Micker
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:30 am Post subject: slays Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Of course you get more slays with BoFF, you swing more per minute then with the 2.0. But if you add up total damage done from slays in a fight, the 2.0 would probably win or equal it.

BTW, Cleave doesn't effect slay rate. Fero would help in the fact you get more swings/per min.
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Abazagaroth
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:32 am Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Unless its been fixed, the 2h aa skills work on 1hers.

As others said, its just ratio that matters for slay damage. In the past, that meant 1hers were often better because at the same level of progression, the knight 1hers had a higher ratio than 2hers, but with epic 1.5 and 2.0, this isn't the case any longer for most people.
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Kneesmasher
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:40 am Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Quote:
Slays are mostly 13k-ish


That can't be the case unless you've figured out how to rig the RNG. It's random how much it's going to be. There is no "Slays are mostly 13-kish when I use my epic 2.0..." If they are, you are just getting lucky. Nothing more. And it will change soon enough.
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Caladel
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:14 am Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The only advantage---if you could call it that---that 1h has over 2h for slay damage, is the faster the weapon the more consistant the damage will be, per unit time. But as far as which will do more damage, the better the ratio the better the long run slay damage.
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Xanadas
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:03 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Kneesmasher,

The damage of your slays is based off regular damage from a swing. If you have very high ATK, you're consistantly landing "high hits" which mean your slays are going to be weighted more toward the upper-end of the spectrum.

It's not completely dependant on the RNG.
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Luthair
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:15 am Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Xanadas wrote:
Kneesmasher,

The damage of your slays is based off regular damage from a swing. If you have very high ATK, you're consistantly landing "high hits" which mean your slays are going to be weighted more toward the upper-end of the spectrum.

It's not completely dependant on the RNG.


While high attack increases the frequency, I haven't seen any parse in which someone consistently hits for max.
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Raitnar
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:33 am Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I only have my 1.5, but when I have my atk over 2k I hit for my max more times than I don't. My max is only 9651, but I've had strings where I've hit that 6 times in a row. When raiding in ToB, the mobs tend to drop fast when me and the other pallies are hitting for those numbers.
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Kneesmasher
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:35 am Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I'm aware of how attack works and what it does to the attack curve.

He still doesn't have slays that average 13kish with his 2.0, even if he has a damage aug. He just doesn't. I don't care what his attack is. You don't average that kind of slay damage for anything but a short period of time and ONLY because you got lucky with the RNG.

I have had slays back to back for over 14k. What if those were the only slays I had that fight? Does that mean I get to say my average slays are 14k-ish? Hardly...
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Caladel
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:03 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
There is potentially one way to have an average slay of 13k....

IF you only fought undead for 5 minutes a day and only using the 7th year veteran reward. And had champion. You would probably average about 13k for slays.... :p
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Lamini
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 7:10 am Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
things change *a little bit* when buffed 2400attack or so. the "wow im so lucky im always getting 13k+ slays with 2.0" idea..... begins to fades away. problem is keeping those buffs up, need hotkeys for buff tells

fero champions sop soh attackclickies AAs etc
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emandes
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 7:20 am Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
hey chaps - I said
Quote:
Slays are mostly 13k-ish
and that does not mean it's my average - but i fought the undeads in arcstone quite a time and each time i soloed there I was raidbuffed and i worked down the buffs - so I soloed for aprx. 70 mins (as salik has the shortest duration)
My atk is at 2.2k

60-70% of slays have been 13k+ and out of those 10-20% 14k+. My max slay is 14.4 k. Very few have been less 5 or 6k and rest has been 9k-ish
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Caladel
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 4:52 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Doubt it. I dont see 60-70% max hits fighting extremely green npcs. Undead or live.

Id be extremely curious to see any parse that shows 60-70% max hits. (Not even max but upper 10% of your max to max)
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Kneesmasher
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 8:59 am Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
As would I Caladel. Most likely you have a case of selective memory. You remember the big ones and not the little ones because the big ones catch your eye. The little ones don't.
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[Valya Wanderfoot]

Orthanos
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:10 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I know I notice the small ones and the big ones when it comes to slays. I still love seeing the text, "Orthanos holy blade cleanses his target for <damage>. Granted the highest slay I have seen was in the 4700 range but I still love to see it. I still dream of seeing what my slays will be when i can get my 1.5 raid fights done and get that!

[Kaz]