The Spirit Realm

by **Tallanor** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:43 pm

In light of the recent nerfs, linking of our spell lines, reducing wot's effectiveness, its time we try to get some thing back. I think we should try for 2 things.

Add snare effect to our current dd spells to regain the useful effect of having both snare and ac debuff 10% damage increaser dd up at the same time when they were linked. We lost the functionality with them being linked so we might as well try to get both effects on the current or potentially new spells in this line.

Add a cure effect to our group heals, or one of our heal lines. It doesn't have to be as powerful as clerics heals with cure lines but even if it was basically just powerful enough to remove tash/malo it would be a nice improvement.

I don't see neither as game breaking, and it would be really nice to get something back for everything modified in this expansion.

What do you guys and gals think?

Website · by **Brohg** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:41 am

Removing Malo is tricky, because it doesn't have counters. It takes the more "generic" cure detrimental, which is currently only on Radiant Cure AA (that paladins do get), Cleric epic click, and shm Pure Spirit spell.

What I can see being reasonable is Paladin group heal getting cure counters for half a standard slow, 8 disease counters. If it were possible to cure half a tash, I'd throw that in, too. That way, when you're around a paladin, those sorts of things just naturally go away pretty soon, instead of five minutes down the line after the fight has been won. If you wanted to get rid of the effect mid-fight, more direct measures would be (as they should be~) necessary.

Oh, Aurora of Morrow should absolutely cure everything, though. First two slots for the current heal effect, and another 3-4 slots each of curing & dispelling on every front. 6k mana heal should just do that.

Website · by **Khael** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:59 am

My suggestions:

1) Fix Aurora of Morrow. It's been broken long enough I'd say.
2) Fix duration on Oathbound Protector. Since it's weaker than our cleric's counterpart, and we don't get a group version of it, I see no reason why the duration can't be 150 minutes, just like the cleric version.

I'm not too bothered about snare on undead nuke - it didn't really work that well in the first place, and besides, undeads rarely flee. The group cure is a nice touch, I'd add that into AoM though.

Website · by **dindaur** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:42 am

I think a cure on a group heal is a good idea.

by **chordling** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:49 am

Pallys had/have (if they still use it) cure poison/disease on boff group heal proc so its not exactly foreign ground, even if its only a few counters like the boff was it would still help and be a nice benefit.

Website · by **kolor** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:24 am

i love the idea of adding the small cure ability of boff to pally group heals
i love the idea of making aurora of morrow group cure everything + small group heal

by **Stephen51** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:28 pm

Boff can cure tash, and I got a little abuse from my Chanter friend if he had a pet, so bear this in mind if asking for group heal having a cure effect.

Website · by **Nightops** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:46 pm

What do you expect to get with adding a weak cure counter to group heals that you dont already have with RC6? I realize the counters on the group heal might eventually cure something that RC6 doesnt cure, but if you really want the thing off you, are you really going to depend on casting the group heal 2 or 3 times... and hope your group members are all in range? Is spending the mana for those minor cure counters worth it?

I like the idea of the aurora as a cure all, that would start to make up for the huge mana cost.

Personally, I'd like to see the WoT/SoT spell duration increased. The old proc rate will never be the same so its not worth asking for, but if we could get the duration from 2mins to say.. 20mins, its a spell thats worth using again imo. Remember it also gives other benefits (ac/atk/+) that add to its value.

Website · by **dindaur** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 7:58 pm

by **kruelcon** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:45 pm

Adding cure all to aom would make it worth meming. But the think id like to get back the most would be our aa stun its good to have the agro of force of disruption ( i myself dont seem to think it has ever worked, on our raids you can cast it and dont seem to even make any difference ) But put the stun ability back on it or make our ancient spell line to stun mobs ( yellow con) up to 3 levels higher. i myself realy miss the ability to stun higher level mobs and dont see any added benifit to force of disruption for taking our aa stun line away. maybe if it worked but i cant see any difference. I am a ma lots on our raids and i have a hard time with agro with the sk's and its not worth the time to cast it over our reg stun line's and challenge. but we use the push part of aa stun to position where it has no dd so wont wake mezed mobs. in short i ramble on lots but i would like our aa stun line back or a stun that can stun mobs over lvl 80. i dont think im the only one that notices that force of disruption dont work either???? or am i?

Website · by **dindaur** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:58 pm

you know you're the fourth of fifth person that's said they don't notice any benefit from the aa- stun. just making me more and more intruiged and wanting to test it out a bit.

Website · by **Peaky** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:13 pm

Force of disruption interrupts anything I ever try it on; and it certainly provides sufficient hate when coupled with the normal hate routine (for me, at least = FoD, Timorous, Solemn, FoD, Challenge, repeat as needed). I notice no issues aside from the very, very, very rare resist of FoD when I'm trying to interrupt a healer. Perhaps I'm just lucky.

I'm in the exact opposite position of a previous poster with respect to the aa stun(s), though. While I would love to have both FoD and Divine Stun be upgraded each level cap raise; if I had to choose one to upgrade over the other, it would be FoD. I use the extra aggro on every mob (from FoD); I use the interrupt effect on almost every caster mob. I wouldn't want to lose the ability to interrupt any level of mob (not to mention stun-immune mobs /cough undead) to get back Divine Stun's old capability of interrupting mobs just slightly higher then the level cap (even if the level of DS was sufficient, I would use it FAR, FAR less than FoD, simply because the knockback is not conducive to keeping dps melee happy).

The one point I do agree on (see my proposed happiness with continuing both lines of aa stun) is that I would love even a 1 second stun on mobs a few levels higher than the level cap - even if it has to come with knockback.

As for pal aggro vs. sk aggro - if they take it from me that means they are trying to, and I let them keep it. If they aren't trying, they don't get it, and everything is a-ok.

by **Hulkling** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:59 pm

I see no problems having both if people want it. Will make sure its upgraded once beta starts rolling.

by **kruelcon** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:16 pm

hod fod and divine stun are all on the same cast timer. there for all they did was take away our aa stun and add a little hate to the hod line. hod will disrupt any level mob so why give us the same thing with ( some hate that i cant tell is there). Im a top end raiding pally im max aa max exp. and i play with some of the top server wide sk's in the game and im telling you that fod is a waist of a cast where fast agro is needed or malee or casters are dead for instance mmm first encounter. fod ( i have casted this and tested it a ton on raids) seems to be broken or need lots more agro added to it to be even worth casting. fod is a joke to the raiding pally untill or unless they fix it imo try to cast your stuns and try them with fod added in. You wont tell one bit of difference between using fod and not using it. Try it and post back on what you think. or add a stun on it and make it worth casting again please. post back on this if anyone that raids and has to fight for agro tell me what you think im sure in group situations fod is fine but anything in group will work. well im starting raiding atm would like to add lots more info on this later but have to go for now. would like some more input on this please.

Website · by **dindaur** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:05 pm

kruel tried posting that above bit but the post got ate, that's the second try...

i'll do just that, try doing what i do minus the aa - stun and see what's what

Website · by **Peaky** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:20 pm

by **Hulkling** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:20 pm

by **kruelcon** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:58 pm

been testing it tonight im using solemn challenge bash taunt teme and if i need the extra agro cont. I have been tossing in a fod here and there dont seem to notice if it does anything more agro wise. the main thing i started this about is that i would like our 2 sec stun added to fod that would add more agro to it yet and be worth puttin in the line up all the time ( i really miss our stunnin mobs over our level ) not just when a mob needs to be interupted. i do not want to get rid of fod just make it better and get our aa stun back in the process.

Website · by **Nodden** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:12 am

I use divine stun alot to move mobs around, but that's the only use it has and upgrading it would be a waste of aas when FoD is on same timer.
I use FoD all the time for aggro in raids. It's an extra chunk of aggro you throw in between stuns when gems are greyed out.

by **kruelcon** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:26 am

Ok so add the stun to fod and leave divine stun alone for pushing and fod will be a interupt stun with no push and nice agro kick for higher level mobs. and far as agro goes i have to see it make a difference but im fighting for agro with a bunch of sk's that can out agro me in a flash any time they want its sick how much more agro they have than a pally. Really pisses me off at times.

Website · by **Nodden** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:40 am

FoD already interrupts and it interrupts stun immune mobs. Why turn it into a stun that wont work on many mobs?

by **kruelcon** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:48 am

The stun and the interupt cant be on seperat lines where it will still interupt but resist the stun? as for higher level mobs there are lots that are stunable in top end raid content chanters stun them lots its sad when a pally cant stun a yellow con but a chanter can ( pally the toon known for stunning ). its wierd that a pally would not want to be able to stun a higher level mob imo?? even if he resist the stun its more hate then add the 1100 hate would be nice utility then. and no push on the fod would make it so raid dps wont be droped cause of the push.

Website · by **Nodden** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:26 am

I don't think that a 1 second stun matters much and divine stun was always very little aggro.

Website · by **dindaur** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:25 am

like most things in this game, each block may be small but leads to a bigger more noticable bottom line. don't measure the spell and it's effectiveness, but you as a paladin and your effect.

Website · by **Khael** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:21 am

I believe Divine Stun was ever only a 1 second stun, and hence, mitigation from it became kind of moot, as all it did was increase the swingtime for the mob by like 50% for that one swing every 10-12 seconds or so. I see no reason why we should want that back. A stun that doesn't generate mitigation or extra hate is a pointless stun and is only going to take up my time that I could be using to cast something else.

To me, the Divine Stun line is dead (with the exception of using it to push once every blue moon), and has been ever since HoD was released. If you want to revive it, then forget about the stun part and just focus on something like increasing the resistance adjustment, and/or increasing the units of knockback it generates. Those are useful changes.

Website · by **dindaur** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:48 pm

i think his point was that it did make a difference, back in the day on rss mobs.

Website · by **Nodden** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:52 pm

Website · by **dindaur** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:00 pm

Website · by **Khael** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:21 pm

He's saying what I'm saying. 1 second of stun does diddly squat, and never has.

Website · by **dindaur** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:07 pm

fair enough

by **Hulkling** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:14 pm

Divine Stun 4 is already on the list of AAs. I can ask Nodyin to make it live.

http://www.antonius-bayle.org/kumbaja/s ... p?id=16020

Website · by **dindaur** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:26 pm

any chance of a pushback upgrade on divine stun hulk?

Website · by **ZsaZsa Vavoom** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:33 pm

Website · by **Khael** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:08 pm

I'm with Zsa here. Adding on more ranks for something that doesn't actually make any difference is pretty useless. I would prefer if they took another look at it and made the extra ranks do something that actually made a difference; like the ranger AA snare that increases the resistance modifier on the second rank, etc.

by **Hulkling** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:22 pm

oh I agree, but I see many requests for this to be upgraded. I see no harm in pushing it live since its already in the database for those people who want it.

Website · by **Nodden** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:00 pm

Apparently people that want it upgraded don't understand that an upgrade would be worthless. That's what we're trying to get across here - that it would have no worth. :idea:

Now if they would put it on a timer separate from FoD then it would be meaningful to upgrade, but I'm thinking they won't.

Website · by **dindaur** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:02 pm

my only reason to upgrade it is more distance pushed

Website · by **Nodden** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:07 pm

@ Dindaur, the previous upgrades to divine stun have only been increased level cap. If implemented, an increased knockback would probably be put on a separate aa like the decrease recast aa.

Website · by **dindaur** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:59 pm

aye. a knockback upgrade would be an improvement in a new aspect of the ability. this upgrade i would welcome.

by **Blabberpuss Stryyker** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:03 pm

Yeah, lets ask Sony to push some upgrades to us, so they can at least say they threw us a bone. Can't we think of anything else that would be more craptastic? Hell, they decreased the cast time for Quellious Word of Tranquility from 4 sec to 2 sec what the hell more do you guys want? I have Force of Disruption, and when I need a knockback I use Lesson of Contrition. And good lord, Divine Stun rank whatever gives you a knock back if you need a second knockback, why in blue blazes do we need a frickin upgrade. This pisses me off, when we continuously ask Sony to give us bu113hit 'upgrades' so they can pat themselves on the back.

The Spirit Realm

Who is online