lets get paladins ae aggro

[dindaur]

right, we'll see if they impliment it, or if it gets changed, or if it gets cut. Right now, that's all we have, the whisperings on the Kumbaja thing.

[Thebobo]

Its on Lucy as well

[shiftie]

To start off... I couldn't read through the novel of posts without my head needing to explode so I kinda skipped around on my way to writing my own novel of a reply. Forgive me if I missed something or if I am saying what has already been said. The argument here is interesting to say the least and it seems dangerous ground to try and tread on. My opinion on the whole subject is coming from years of playtime. I read a crap load of posts saying we have ae aggro in the form of heals... burst heal... group heal... and its all blah blah blah.

Group heal has far too long of a cast time to be effective at generating aggro. Now other classes will argue that SK ae hate has a similar cast time... the difference is that they can achieve this aggro from the start of a fight and they are guarenteed it will generate xamount of hate during any portion of a fight. Group heals do not generate aggro properly in all situations. I admittedly do not know the cause of this and I don’t think it has ever, in all the reading I have done, been properly explained. I just know that it doesn’t work 100% of the time. And you shouldn’t have to hope that members in your group are damaged so that you can generate the best aggro from a spell. When trying to use this method I’d argue you actually lose more aggro than you gain. Trying to get this spell off you lose 1. swing aggro and 2. stun aggro. If you are interrupted once trying to cast this and go for a second cast that’s 4.4 seconds you haven’t done jack; 4.4 seconds is a long time to be fiddling with a spell while the current dps classes are putting out the massive amounts of aggro that they do. All the while if it does cast it isn’t guaranteed to generate the proper aggro. Wave of absolution = 1225 mana and Revile 180 mana.

By way of balance SoE has been slowly moving paladins away from stuns as an effective way of mitigation. The great balance if you will. Most undead content cannot be stunned because stun locking a mob permanently while hitting it for 20k is a bit unfair and I agree that undead content should be flagged so that it can’t be stunned. However, most expansions include zones such as Crystallos where our mitigation has to strictly come from heals because the mobs are too high in level to stun them. Enter burst heal … I see no reason this spell should ever be looked at as an argument for AE aggro. It is meant to save lives- the occasional group member or raid member, but mostly our own. It is meant to supplement our inability to stun a mob just the same as ward of tunare and blessing of life. Sk’s mitigate damage while doing dps and their lifetaps generate aggro and I am sure that the healing effect adds a portion of ae aggro but this is not the spell gem they mash if they want to get the attention of multiple mobs -the aggro attached is a bonus. While burst may add aggro it doesn’t make sense to heal the puller, and burst heal yourself 2 or 3 times just for the sake of aggro. That can only go on for so long before you are saying “hold on guys I need to med”.

I saw an argument saying that paladins aren’t meant to be the best at ae aggro as we have many other uses. The ability to generate aggro among the tank classes should be near identical with warriors pulling slightly ahead. It shouldn’t be who the best etc is; it should be 100% balance b/w SK/Pal. Choosing a paladin as a tank shouldn’t limit you in situations so that you wouldn’t want a certain tanking class in a group because mobs split into 4 and their ability to generate aggro does not compare to the other classes. Pal/SK aggro should match each other period the end. I can see the argument for other things not being equal but our primary function should function in an identical fashion.

The argument is that if we gain AE aggro the pal/sk balance shifts toward paladins. Something like blah blah blah slay undead blah blah blah. I won’t get into all of the pros and cons of each class what I will say is that I’d agree with giving sk’s a bane other than plants if nothing more than to stop the whining. When the devs tried to implement that I suppose they tried to choose something that they could control the actual content of much like the undead. You can’t obviously make it all living mobs or SK’s would stand in as a constant dps class with no limitations such as the inability to stun that we see on undead content. Think if you will of the limited undead content during PoP, GoD, OOW. Knowing that they needed to add in more undead they went overboard with DoD, PoR and TSS as far as raid content (not that I’m complaining). Bear in mind it matched the lore that they were trying to achieve in their storyline. Undead content for the group usually means it will kick your teeth in. In DoD it was “bolster”. In TSS it was direwind bard speed super mobs or FC 3.5k hitting group mobs and on all accounts paladins couldn’t stun the mobs to mitigate damage, so while it had the upside of their added dps it had the downside of inferior tanking. It evened itself out by way of a superb offense equals a better defense, kill it faster and you take less damage. Now I know few people see Slay serving this purpose, but mainly because they are too busy screaming UNFAIR.

I would here propose to give SK’s the first version of slay undead but make their ability to mitigate damage on said mob 50-70% less effective. If that means that lifetap gets resisted 50-70% of the time so be it, it’s better than stun getting resisted 100% of the time. Throw in some lore about them stealing the secrets from the paladins but not perfecting the magic because they took the head of their tortured captor before he could fully explain it to them. Hopefully, evening out the burst dps so that at the end of the day we can argue for AE aggro without having slay undead thrown in our face over and over. I believe in balance but lean any amount of dps in the direction of Sk’s and the boat will tip over and that is a fact. Because their offensive tanking is better than our defensive tanking on multiple levels, luckily burst heal has added a new dimension. I just hope they stop hitting our crit rate on heals with the nerf bat. I’d argue we have an equal amount of healing AA’s as clerics and druids and only see ¼ of the criticals that they do.

with all that said I like the idea of this as an AA. I hope to see this go live.

[knytul]

no offense dude...but *Snore*....Post is too damn long....

Anyway, This thread should pretty much be Silent till like...September when next expansion beta is thought about... Theres already an ae agro being discussed by Leaders. No they not gonna tell us a damn thing about it. Well know more when they release more

[Thebobo]

[knytul]

1) Yes the Community leaders simply because Hulkling said he cant disclose the information on it because of NDA..
2) Yes its on Lucy but guess what, thats the ability they discussing atm...doesnt mean that its live in game atm.
3) Frodlins already had his chances to put his 2 cents in it
http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts ... _id=131569

But he didnt...because hes under NDA too. His input is basically for Hulkling's eyes alone as far as pallys concerned. Now dont go off replyin in that thread either...its done, its been up for 2 months, points are proven.

Again, there is NOTHING we can do Until Beta....so really this thread should be closed....

[Thebobo]

[knytul]

welcome to the big secret

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=5923

[kruelcon]

as far as u can see a good sk can turn out over 3k dps on any mob at any time on burst dps. The sk's in our guild do all the time and if they dont they call each other out for slacking. now as far as slays go we have to get lucky bunch of slays or be able to nuke to push over 3k dps on a undead raid mob( cant nuke on raid mobs only last rites or raid looses dps over loosing the bards fd). So in my mind they should stop crying about slays because they have more dps with out it. any time they want to turn on the dps. maybe not in group situations as much since we can slay any time on undead group content. But the crying should be over since they are pushing as good as or better dps than slays give us. SO Hell yes we need ae agro puttin my 2 cents in. The group heals are a shit poor way to get ae agro i do use 3-4 when i have to and stun but it dont work well and go oom fast doing that.