The Spirit Realm

i am chaining sacred force, ancient and akera. i cast the new challenge thingy all the time. i procc cs4. i heal. AND i constantly lose aggro, even to a beastlord. sometimes i am not even able to get it back outside of taunting....

anyone else have probs?

c.

Nope. Challenge is enough for me most of the time. Sometimes, if a well-equipped zerker is in group, I'd have to land a stun on the first mob too.

Zero aggro problems here.

In fact with the addition of challenge I found myself able reduce stunning considerly and still maintain aggro. I use 2.0 with a guard III proc on it.

See the thread on the Shaman general page about Wizard mana regen... Between that and the new OOC regen, Wizards look to have a lot more mana to throw around. It may take them a while to figure out how to balance their aggro again

Boleslav

Dot agro is simply unmitigated damage agro. Nukes are affected by focus & AA agro reduction, dots aren't. So the 727/tick base damage of Juju, or whatever your focussed damage is, it straight up a 727/tick agro spell. Similarly for every other dot in the game, agro = damage.

Although it is a little different situation, I am having no problems with my palybot at all. I usually cast sacred and lesson on inc, then follow with challenge and pretty much leave him alone. However, I usually do have sloth on him to allow me to be lazy on the boxing side...If the content requires (and a stunnable mob) I will stun for mitigation purposes only.

This allows me to dot/nuke freely as well as the wizzy that I usually group with.

600 Hate on it -

Kinda forgot that I have it though and tend to never use it as plenty of agro with challenge, sacred force, and ancient

I used my set up listed above in a ashengate group before nerf. I had to keep attack off as I was getting tore up with attack on, so just cast ancient first for the 1800, non stunning aggro, followed with sacred, which didn't stun there either, but its almost another 2k hate, then I used challenge. Then 2 sacreds and another challenge. I never had aggro issues save once when a ranger over aggroed, and went from 100 to 40 in one round of combat. That was funny, but other than that, I had 0 aggro issues. Maybe the folks I was hanging with, a druid and bot druid healing, 2 rangers, one boxing a shaman, other the druid, a rogue, and a monk, oh, and had a sk as well, just knew how to watch their aggro. Doubt it though. If challenge is roughly 650 a tick plus 650 on contact, that means in less than 10 seconds a paladin can generate over 4k aggro. Then 12 seconds later it will be up over 7 to 8k. If you keep chaining sacred, thats another 2k hate along with challenged 650 a tick for 3300 every 12 seconds, without melee.

The only way I can see losing aggro is if dps classes pull out the stops and go nuts. So I have to agree, if you are doing the above, or anything close to it, and still losing aggro, it isn't that you are losing aggro, its that it is being stolen. If the person keeps stealing aggro, let them tank. Once they get ground down a few times, they will learn, either that, or you get to play dps for a bit.

go look at that pal vs. sk post
our stun hate values are listed there
it sounds like the wizard is casting right off the bat

i use the ancient / force / call cycle then cycle force as well
i've noticed on certain beastlords and rogues, you have to be vigilant about keeping up the stuns
the requirement is not luck but vigilance on our part
every stun counts with each one having massive aggro it's building us quite a high aggro level
normally if there is a problem it's early on when my aggro on the mob hasnt been built up that high yet
in emergencies taunt and try to building your aggro faster than the enthusiastic dps is
however
if the dps can melee so well that their dps creates nearly as much aggro as your stun line up
talking aggro over time
you can expect it to go back and forth a few times
but again this should be early on and solved within 10 seconds or so
if all else fails you can taunt to reset the fight
but you need to build up a new mountain of aggro at that point

this is one of the things i dislike about our class
building aggro one click at a time trying to match pure dps aggro
on their end these dps are hitting their offence backstab frenzy or special move and their combat abilities like clawstriker
their payoff is sick dps, and sick aggro
on our end we're using two stuns and an aggro over time on a good day
(often stuns that are resisted making them only worth their aggro)
but it can get to the point where youre using your second stun and your call to maintain
the nice thing about our stuns is how low mana they are
and with the right mana regen you can stave off having to sit for hours and hours
and even then you can swap in cease and start relying on taunt (heh its fun to mess with guildmates sometimes
and your mana actually goes up while you tank
but i dislike the mundane clicking
for what warriors get many procs and discs for
what its come to is we literally have to click more for similar aggro
not sure i like the extra work