The Spirit Realm

Hello.. I was on sony boards just seeing who can solo better between bst and shamans and someone mentioned that for the toughest mobs, paladins have beaten things solo that would 1 round a shaman... That perk my interest so i came here to ask yuo paladins this, Can you guys really solo just as good as shamans??? and beat some of the toughest mobs ingame solo?? i pasted what the guy said below.

"To take down the toughest MoBs, play SK or Paladin.

A shaman would help your friends more."
"Paladins can do it because of self healing spells and simply massive tanking ability. You wear them down before they wear you down.

A shaman would get 1-rounded by some things Paladins can solo, though they solo fairly well also.
so now im interested. any truth to it? i know the class takes alot of work and such but if you want to take down the tough mobs and such can paladins really do it better then a shaman?

the answer is no, simply because you cant classify it like that. for mobs that summon and you gotta stand toe to toe and beat on...Pal > Sham. for mobs you can beat over time, Sham > Pal. basically it comes down to who can withstand a summon better...

my last solo excursion was in a lost notebook taking on 5 mobs at the same time, is wasn't a hard but a normal, relatively trivial, coa geared with a 2.0 and basically you just shackles root everything and take em down one by one, click your epic every 5 mins for crit heals on tunare up to 1100 when your epics down use your armor of the inquisitor, if you end up getting two or three use your TBS tank disc, keepign up word of tunare the entire time, use your heal over time and burst as needed, - and its really good to have some sort of a mana regen click it wont stack with your dog from icefall but i tend to give up the 20 perdecent for the 5 mana regen on my click and youll also want to get your damage shield up as high as you can anything to passively add dps i have no slow weapon so as fast as they hit me thats as fast as hey do do themselves 72 damage hit for hit plus tunare will be healing most of the damage done to you depending on the size of the hits there is a threshold and if the mob hist harder than that point tunare no longer heals enuogh to cover your hp to cover its dps so you aggro extra mobs and these mobs will increase your proc rate - tunare lasts a finite amount of procs and yourll cash out your bank faster if you have more mobs so youll be casting it faster than the duration of the buff otherwise and then becomes the issue of interupts you stick yourself in a corner and channel through any bashes its not too long of a cast but it is fairly long especially compared to stuns - name of the game is conservation cycle your abities and do what yuo can to heal yourself without using mana because when manas out games over now there's the vet ability togive you a 2nd life but i tend not use it hehe although i probably would if i were fighting a big boss that took me to the very limit

and that is a view into the paladin soloing game

we're also bobbing all over the place anyway easy to strafe to the side and root a mob move back and attack away without losing any casting value since most of the fight we'll be sitting there with attack on, the stuns are all short cast times

and of course, compare a shaman's primary tool with a paladins CC option and you'll find that when it comes to soloing vp is more useful to a shaman than shackles is to a paladin. if you're going for a real comparison it'd be the VP root rot style versus the knight tank grind style - hands down you'll find more killspeed on the shammy.

on any conetnt that shalckes lands, paladins will always be capable of way more CCwise than shammies. but understand that i'll never represent the shaman perspective in my own postings because quite simply i'm a member of the class - what i can do is faithfully represent the paladins, as i have been, you shuold always take everything i say about shammies with a grain of salt, because all i have comes from the players i've grouped with and not from casting them myself and not from having a solid understanding how the shaman solo game works.

i have been in solo situations where i was dealing with four mobs at the same time, shackles came in, and i was able to control them, and to compare shackles to shammy root (non vp) is to compare a a greater and lesser root. Vp is sort of the free ticket, interesting that the recast is 2 mins i'll file that away some where ;p but shackles is as often as you like, and pure sex and no matter what anyone says shackles >>>>> that crappy sham root that i never see get used

oh and pallies rule, shammies drool !

4 mobs in camp, how dose a shammy handle it.

4 mobs into camp?

Someone should be meleeing one of them - that deals with one short term

Shaman VP's the second mob. This knocks it back out of melee range and the root should last a good long while.

Shaman Fires off PB AoE slow to buy time (and a self rune).

Runs off a little way with mobs following (from PBAoE slow aggro) and roots the third and fourth off using the Ornate Pants (PoP Era armour). Clicks Union of Spirits on Self while doing this (AA instant cast 3K instant/1K per tick)

Slows the 1st mob with Turgurs from Time's Anthesis - or a spell cast of Balance

Applys Turgurs, Malis and root to the other 2 mobs while dropping in HoT's and Heals, panthers and DoT's

Even if you're talking about solo with 4 mobs in camp, it's much the same. Shaman root isn't as handy as shackles, because it's more likely to be interrupted, but the process is much the same as a paladin would use when solo. Root one, move, root another, move, root another, move, root the first one that came free, move.... when all are rooted, debuff them, which should mean that the roots last longer (which isn't an option paladins have).

Or alternatively, find a spot where you're not as likely to get 4 mobs, and there are more spots where a shaman can solo handily than where a paladin can, because to be efficient, a paladin needs undead.

Procs aren't reliable as a means of debuffing though. Nice toys, but while you're wielding the Journeyman's Walking Stick or Willsapper hoping for a proc, you're not doing your normal dps. Plus, Willsapper is only 35% slow, and will typically be mitigated, is it really worth the time taken to make it proc?

As my ranger, before I got both epic 1.0s, I had a Swarmcaller (procced Tagar's Insects, up to 50% slow, but probably around 45% the levels I used it), and would sometimes take most of a fight to slow a mob, which meant it took longer to kill and did me more damage than it would if I'd just gone with my dps weapons from the start. Of course, there were the times it would proc first swing, but it was probably break even whether it helped or not overall.

I would find there were some fights that if it didn't proc soon, then I'd need to heal before the mob was dead, whereas if I used the dps weapons, the mobs would typically be easily dead before I'd heal, simply because I was outputting the dps. At that point, it became not worth using. Fortunately for me, I got Earthcaller at about that time.

I definitely get a laugh out of all the weenie wagging i see on the boards. There will always be somethings that certain classes can do better than others, just like there will always be some players who can and others who cant even if equally geared AAed etc its all contextual. Personally I dont begrudge other classes their abilities as long as I myself have a niche I can excel in and so much of that is dependent on the skills of the player not the class. I admit its difficult sometimes to watch other classes get gear abilities etc the enables their class to grow in leaps and bounds while your favorite is left dying in a corner somewhere collecting dust. Or to watch them killing mobs that kill you in a blink of an eye. The whole point is sure you might not be able to do one thing but there are a lot of things you can do that others cant. Also by design the game is meant to be a social event that can only be fully experienced with others. Every class has something to bring to the table that is beneficial to the group but not any one class can do it all on their own. Makes me cry to say this but as a paladin I feel sorry for the warriors out there who are far more dependent on others

The original question was related to Big Game hunting I believe, not so much solo exp capability. Shaman and Paladins each have their own advantages/disadvantages when hunting Big Game. Here they are as I see it. Feel free to assist...


Advantages
Big Debuffing Capability (MalisX/Slow/Cripple)
High Active Mana Regen
Very efficient heal over time spells (With Crits)
Sizable Blast Heals
Low levels of DPS are Very Sustainable
Reliable CC for one mob
Pet

Disadvantages
Chain mitigation
Fewer HP
High levels of DPS is largely mana dependant


Advantages
Plate Mitigation
Higher levels of AC are attainable
Knight HP Table
Stun Damage Mitigation
Very Fast Heals
DPS isn't Mana Dependant
High DPS vs. Undead

Disadvantages
Relatively Low DPS vs. Live
More limited Mana Regen

When talking about Big Game I think the following are also true:
Both classes tank in teh face.
Paladins mitigate more incoming damage. (Plate/AC/AA's)
Shaman avoid more incoming damage (Debuffs).
Both classes rely on self healing to survive long enough for their limited dps to kill their target.

I think that both classes are respectable Big Game hunters. Each class's performance will vary depending on the encounter. If the mob is undead for example, the Paladin has a clear advantage. I think the best way to get an idea of where each class does well is to just take a look at the bragging section of our respective forums. You'll get an idea of what we're capable of.

Pally has WoT which greatly effects soloablility for big game in trivial expanions. Pallys have hots that crit.

If a paly can find a couple weak mobs to beat on them while they attack the "big game" they are basically unkillable unless the named mob hits for some very high amount (or has a mana stealing ability.)

Yeah, WoT basically makes solo'ing older content a breeze, as long as you have mobs to beat on you. And even if the mob hits hard, it still makes healing alot easier in the long run, for a relatively small amount of mana honestly.