Bashes and Stuns (Caladel, 1/26/04)

[Valya Wanderfoot]

Caladel
Supreme Lord Protector
Posts: 2702
(1/26/04 11:17 pm)
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Bashes and stuns


Since we currently have a skill in discord that is suposto increase stun rate on bashes i thought i would setup a pretest to get a baseline before discord goes live.

Best method i can think of is to test on another level 65 player. Since we dont get stun messages when we bash npcs, but we do get stun messages if we get bashed ourselves. So, i /dueled my 65 wizard and logged both.

Can anyone think of a good method i could use on an npc?...

I ofcourse cant post after results till discord goes live and i buy the skill. But, i was rather shocked at the baseline log i took, so wanted to post that heh. I never knew bashes stunned this much....or is it because of my setup? Duno, but i was shocked at the stun rates.

bash attempts: 396
bash misses: 151
bashes dodged: 6
bash hits: 239
bash stuns: 106

44.35% of bash hits stunned my opponent.

My bash hit/hit+miss was higher then normal fighting as well. Guess thats just because it was a duel...

Man i wish i got stun messages on npcs so i could see what that looks like and if its the same.

Also wish i had a melee on my 2nd account a war or knight to see if i get the same kinda stun rate on them. My wizard only has 829AC self buffed, i wonder if thats why the stun rate was so high? Hrm think ill do a another hundred or so bashes and buff his AC up some and see what happens.


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Edit, did that, and did a bit on a 65 monk.

Raised the wizard to 920 ac, best i could do with bagged gear+bulwark.

bash attempts: 135
bash misses: 57
bashes dodged: 3
bash hits: 75
bash stuns: 35

46.66% of bash hits stunned my opponent.

So, changing his AC didnt help.


Also tried it on a time level monk with very good gear, and /flip monks and their avoidance! Hehe my accuracy was @#%$ on him.

bash attempts: 123
bash misses: 56
bashes dodged: 9
bashes blocked: 19
bashes riposted: 6
bash hits: 33
bash stuns: 13

39.39% of bash hits stunned my opponent.

So, wasent the wizard, it really is that high of a percentage of stuns to bashes, when we can actually hit something... Notice my nice 26.83% hits/swings on the monk, compared to the 60.35% on the wizard hehe.

Anyway guess that answers that question tho, my test vs a wizard shoudl work find for testing that AA when it comes out in a few weeks. So, let you know what i find out when i get that skill. But, its probably not gonna be very high on my list.....level 1 might be.

Edited by: Caladel at: 1/27/04 12:06 am

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Caladel
Supreme Lord Protector
Posts: 2703
(1/27/04 12:10 am)
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Re: Bashes and stuns

While on the topic tho, has anyone setup tests on what level npcs we can stun with bashes at 65? Save me some time on hunting down npcs and trying it myself.

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Taallyn
Knight Errant of Rodcet Nife
Posts: 2708
(1/27/04 12:17 am)
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Re: Bashes and stuns

Interesting, I've been wondering similar questions myself. However, I don't even have the 2-handed bash skill yet. I'll look forward to your results, as it might change some of my AA plans a bit after GoD releases.

Sir Taallyn Nifesblade
Lord Protector of Life
Seventh Cavalry
Bristlebane

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Caladel
Supreme Lord Protector
Posts: 2704
(1/27/04 1:24 am)
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Re: Bashes and stuns

Ok, was still in the testing mood.

Tried a level 60 frog in plane of valor first. Stunable from frontal during combat and while running.

Tried a level 66 valorian guard in plane of valor, the ones in the white building by zone in, not the ohter ones. Not stunable from frontal while fighting or when it ran. I tried about 30 stuns while it was running and couldnt get it to stop. Tryed a good 50+ while fighting and couldnt get it to stop moving, annoying to do on that npc since it summons.

Next up tried a level 65 defender of fire in plane of fire. Stunable from frontal when i was fighitng it. Didnt run, but im pretty sure it was while running too.

And ofcourse level 65 players were stunable from my duel tests above.

So 65 = limit on bash stunning at 65.


When i say it was stunable from frontal. I would stand there with attack off till bash recycled then bash and quickly run backwards. On a successful hit, and when a stun would happen it was pretty easy to see it stop there for a bit. Did it multiple times on any npc i thought was stunable to confirm it.

Least i finally got off my lazy arse and tested that one, i had been wondering for awhile.


Edit: GAH didnt notice when i edited this post i put " Tryed a good 50+ while fighting and couldnt get it to stop moving, annoying to do on that npc since it summons." on the wrong paragraph. That shoulda been next to the 66 mob.

Edited by: Caladel at: 1/27/04 3:11 pm


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Merts
Wandering Knight
Posts: 445
(1/27/04 3:22 am)
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Hmm nice work Caladel. I had been wondering this too, and even half-thought 2h bash didn't stun mobs well in PoP, this might move up 2h bash on the list a bit for some people. I only pretty recently got 2h bash and it's a nicer skill than i thought it would be.

Come to think of it..... it doesn't mention whether you are using a 2hand weapon +2h-bash, or if you are using a 1h + shield combo.

Do you think it's different for 2hbash / 1h + shield?

And a possibility that's unlikely, but i may as well propose it; could it be different bash rates for different shields?

-Mertine
Lord Protector
Drinal

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Romidar
Knight of the Truthbringer
and PoN Admin
Posts: 3009
(1/27/04 7:52 am)
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Re: Bashes and stuns

This is very interesting - I've not noticed stunning any mobs in LDoN using 2-hand bash (which I assume you were using); the last time I noticed mobs being stunned were in Chardok when I was 60th level.

I'll have to try assessing in using the method you did (the backing up part, really wouldn't care for a runner Wink ).

My Magelo
His Faithful Squire, The Draw Druid

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Taallyn
Knight Errant of Rodcet Nife
Posts: 2709
(1/27/04 8:30 am)
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Re: Bashes and stuns

It occurred to me that we might want to get some pre-GoD tests in regarding 2-handed and shield bash DPS. The other Bash AA will increase our damage via bashes. So, it might be a good time to parse that as well in preparation for GoD.

Sir Taallyn Nifesblade
Lord Protector of Life
Seventh Cavalry
Bristlebane

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Danathh
Noble Squire
Posts: 56
(1/27/04 8:36 am)
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You can stun LDoN mobs using a shield. I'm almost positive. I used to use a 1h/shield for guk adventures. As for 2h bash? I dunno. Don't have the aa yet.

Romidar
Knight of the Truthbringer
and PoN Admin
Posts: 3017
(1/27/04 9:31 am)
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Re: Bashes and stuns

I'm going to have to pull out a shield and test this. I bash mobs fequently when I pull in LDoN (e.g., I have 3 mobs on me and am running backwards trying to get them rooted). I've not noticed a pause, but I'm usually too busy to notice, probably.


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Kneesmasher
Wandering Knight
Posts: 520
(1/27/04 10:49 am)
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Re: Bashes and stuns

If you could find a mob that runs into a wall and gets stuck in a corner, that would work. On some old Velious mobs, I know a few places. The Orcs in the Fort in Eastern Wastes will run into the wall surrounding the fort, get stuck on one of the wall pillars and be stuck in a corner, so to speak. I maxxed my Disarm skill this way. Got him in the corner and just pushed my Disarm button every chance I got while he tried to walk away from me.

You could stun this way too, and the Chief, I believe, is still a blue con mob. Granted, it's Velious and not PoP...but just a thought. Perhaps there are some places in Katta or somewhere else where you could do this.

Dwarven Lord Protector of Immortals Rising - Kneesmasher Ayebulger

"Never Mistake Kindness for Weakness"

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Caladel
Supreme Lord Protector
Posts: 2705
(1/27/04 12:06 pm)
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Re: Bashes and stuns

Ya forgot to mention that was with 2handed bash.

To date ive found zero differences between shield bash and 2handed bash, other then the obvious damage difference. I dont expect discord aas to be any different, but thats th point of me setting up prelogs.

And ive already taken and set aside logs to use to test the increase bash damage aa when discord comes out.

Getting some good prelogs for weapon affinity as well.

That reminds me tho i should get a log of shield bash stun rate just to be sure its not different, even tho i highly doubt it will be.

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Valya Wanderfoot
Supreme Lady Protector
Posts: 2963
(1/27/04 1:44 pm)
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Re: Bashes and stuns

I am like 99.9 % sure that 2hbash stuns mobs in HOH, as I recall once I agro kited with a druid -- druid snared and built agro and then dot-kited with the mob chasing her, I followed behind beating on the mob -- and 2hbash would make the mob pause. She asked me about it...

I only did this once (what an annoying way to exp it was) but it was very distinct at the time. These would have been the level 61-62 mobs in the basements in HOH.

I remember quite clearly that casting mobs in LDON (normal) have been interrupted when I hit 2hbash, but it is possible that the interrupt should be credited to someone else (chanter) stunning at the same time so I guess I can't be sure.

Valya Wanderfoot, 65 Paladin
Dark Bane, Mithaniel Marr


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Romidar
Knight of the Truthbringer
and PoN Admin
Posts: 3029
(1/27/04 2:51 pm)
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Re: Bashes and stuns

Quote:I remember quite clearly that casting mobs in LDON (normal) have been interrupted when I hit 2hbash, but it is possible that the interrupt should be credited to someone else (chanter) stunning at the same time so I guess I can't be sure.



I definitely interrupt mobs all the time with 2hand bash (I'm frequently the only one meleeing); it seems I've gotten interrupts without stunning them, though, so it's hard to tell whether that matters.

Maybe we should be asking for them to add a stun message for bash since they are adding new bash AA's?


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Romidar
Knight of the Truthbringer
and PoN Admin
Posts: 3032
(1/28/04 10:02 am)
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Re: Bashes and stuns

Well I played around a bit in LDoN (by bashing and backing up), and I was clearly stunning mobs at least some of the time. Another one of those "well I'll be darned" moments (just like I was certain that you could proc divine might on a bash Wink ).

I'm glad to know this - makes me even happier to have 2-hand bash.


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Caladel
Supreme Lord Protector
Posts: 2710
(1/28/04 12:49 pm)
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Re: Bashes and stuns

You can also see them jump back some when you bash stun an npc.

If you have attack off and bash and back up when they are stunned you can clearly see them snap back a little bit just like when we use a spell push stun. They snap back delayed, like spells.

Another thing i didnt mention it 'seemed' like my stun rates were lower on the npc tests i was running. But i didnt exactly count, nor have a way to parse that, so it was just perception. Mabye its the same rate as my player tests, mabye its not.


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Another thing im curious about, what is the formula for what level you can bash? A likely guess would be any npc/player <= to your level. Duno if thats right or not. Leave that up to lower level paladins to play with.

Edited by: Caladel at: 1/28/04 12:50 pm

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Khrokhro
Noble Squire
Posts: 195
(2/1/04 2:28 am)
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Very interresting read Caladel. I didn't had the impression i was stunning mobs that much by bashing them (but i keep doing it, taunt bash is just a Pavlov reflex i have when i see a mob). I can confirm 2hbash interrupts lvl 65 mob, as I have been interrupting lvl 65 casters in Pofire for a while with it (they cast a lot so you see a lot of interrupt messages if you keep bashing them).

About the improved bash damage, I doubt it will be worth it for 2h bash (does 2hbash really do damage ? Smile but might be a way to improve our 1hand/shield combo (we have 2 different AA for 2handers none for 1h)

Duke Khroghleulai Tonneaudebiere < Elemental Dawn >

Karana Server


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Wulfhere Hausakliufr
PvP Forum Moderator
Posts: 1631
(2/1/04 3:05 pm)
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Re: Bashes and stuns

A bash hit will always has a (high) chance ter interrupt a spell cast on a NPC that can be stunned. Stun effect or no. Ah believe this be part o tha combat engine since day one. Much tha same code that allows an NPC ter interrupt and stun with any melee hit.

Ogre frontal stun immunity was noticed in pvp early on, trying ter bash ogre shaman and shadowknights, but it took a while ter be understood for what it was; an undocumented racial bonus.


Wulfhere Hausakliufr
Hammer o Brell, Rallos Zek
Jarlo99
Noble Squire
Posts: 34
(2/2/04 9:38 am)
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I am hoping that the new GOD aa's will allow for some alternate path's for paladins, instead of focusing everyone into the 2h mode once 2h bash and the other 2h aa that increases the number of attacks are obtained. Personally I like the shield look & feel so I almost always use 1h + shield currently. Of course I do not have the 2h aa yet so....

Hopefully this can make a shield pally a bit more even with 2h pallies when the appropriate aa's are purchased.

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Serifina- Lord Protector of Tunare
--Shards of Chaos--
Firiona Vie

Leaderz0rz
Noble Squire
Posts: 107
(2/2/04 10:47 pm)
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e i would say for 1handers to be usful in regular exp groups, it would have to stun a mob with a shield over 60 percent of the time, and block a percent of repoistes. only then would a 1h/shield be usful.


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Romidar
Knight of the Truthbringer
and PoN Admin
Posts: 3069
(2/3/04 2:02 pm)
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Re: e
Copying this post to the Tomes of Knowledge so we don't lose it.