Healing aggro ---- need help

[medman]

I am a 65 druid and I now have noticed I am healing to much and I need help to fix the problem.

Example: I am in DSH at the farm and tank brings 4 beetles. If I chain heal The bugs break aggro and before the tanks can reestablish aggro I am dead and I am the only one in group that dies. Is there a way I can pace my heal spells so I do not have this problem. Some say I can root it but not everything I can have time to root or even if it is possible to root. I am on an AA grind and will probably stay 65 until I get a good base. I have not yet gotten to the hate AA's ( I think that is SC reenforcemt but I have SC mastery at lvl 3.)

Of course, DSH is just one example-- other zones present same problem but usually not 4 at 1 time.

Willowee

[Tanom]

Well I would suggest that u do finish those hate AAs. Also work on ur 1.5/2.0 epic it does have an innate hate reducer on it. It will just get worse as we do not have any Heal over time spells at this time except for the AAs but those are unreliable at best do to the 15 min reuse so should only be used in emergency not as a group arsenal. Snare the mobs on inc and run around the tank if u do get the aggro. I would suggest also that if u want to get AAs instead of levels at this time that you go and charm kite maybe in Steppes or Icefall because getting a group all the time is unrealiable for a druid so your AAs will come slow.

[Huurgh]

[Whitman]

The AAs you want now (if you don't have them maxed already) are called Healing Adept and Healing Gift; they increase the power of your heals, which means you can cast fewer healing spells.

But the AA that would really mean something is Spell Casting Subtlety:
"The first three ranks of this ability make NPCs notice your magical activities 5, 10, and 20 percent less. Additional ranks further enhance this effect."

Also, you may want to invest in Silent Casting, which opens up for you at lvl 66. It reduces the amount of hate you generate when you cast spells, but can only be used about 2.5 minutes every 36 minutes: "While active, this ability will reduce the amount of hate you generate when casting spells by up to 20%. Each additional rank increases the maximum that this ability can reduce your hate by an additional 20%."

Check the thread .

[Kianor]

[Blueoak]

Back to the situation you described it is just not easy as a druid to heal in those situations unless the tank has good aggro on all 4 mobs. I had the same issues at that lvl range. The puller/tank in the group need to work with you and realize singles and AE aggro are going to be needed if they want you to be able to heal them. SK's have an easier time at it with their AE aggro spells.

You need to remember a druid heal on a tank is almost if not the same aggro as nuking those adds. That is going to pull aggro. As mentioned above, your subtlety AA's will help A LOT as will epic 1.5/2.0 but i really doubt your are doing anything wrong per say, it is just an awkward learning curve for a druid because we do not have an effective reusable HoT. Our heals create a lot of aggro, and at those mid lvl ranges the tanks you are grouping with normally do not have the best aggro weapons. High heal aggro + low tank aggro = dead druid. As much as I hate to say it another option is your "Not so Complete" heal. It has much less aggro than your fast heals and at that lvl may be your best option if you are main healer in a group. As you get higher lvl it does get easier. You will get more hate reduction stuff and tanks will get better Aggro stuff.

Hope this long ass ramble helped

[Veril]

There are 2 solutions to this
1) Buy the AA spell casting subtlty . rk3 = 20% hate reduction. That's real meaningful

2) Tell the group that they cannot handle a 4 pull due to aggro. If you get heal aggro self evac instantly and repeat that the group cannot handle a 4 pull due to aggro. Every single time you get aggro from an overpull self evac and let them die and repeat the fact that the group cannot handle a 4 pull due to aggro. I am 100% serious about this.

[Cromagnon]

Well, being that my main is a Warrior, and I also play a druid on another account by himself, or boxxed with my warrior, I should be able to offer some insight.

First off in this type of situation, you should be addressing the issue of avoiding having more mobs than you want / can handle in each pull. If you are using a warrior for pulling a few things that can help. 1) If your druid is able to pacify up to 70, then they should be able to use this in DSH (guessing you are at the Dungore bug Camp) as it is outdoor and those mobs are below level 70 2) Suggest to the warrior to use his Incite / Berate / Scowl line (agro over time disc line) to pull, versus using an arrow, doing no dmg to the mob when pulled gives much higher likelihood of getting less mobs to assist. Also, have them wait for mob pathing to provide advantageous pulling for them. These tips will limit the incoming mobs, and if 2 or 3 is likely, the warrior can pick the one that is likely to assist, have a root/mez class pre target and if they add, use crowd control to eliminate the extra mob dps.

Druid Spells that would help:

Nature's Serenity:
Class/Level: DRU/67
200mana
Outdoor Only
Pacify to level 70

As for having multiple mobs in camp already, few things that the warrior can use to his advantage in keeping multiple mobs agro, is setting the main assist in group to another toon (preferably a melee dps, just make sure whoever is main assist isn't changing targets!) which enable the warrior to switch around as necessary to get a basic level of agro. Another is using the whirlwind line of aoe melee discs(which also have a large hate component included!) often; especially on incoming. Another thing that helps, but can't be used every pull, is the warrior line of Rune proc Discs, every time a rune is procced while disc is up, anything that is agro on the warrior, will get a set amount of hate added to its list by the warrior, very efficient means of keeping increasing agro without switching targets.

Warrior Disc that would help:

Whirlwind Blade
Class/Level: WAR/61
1: Skill Attack(35)
AoE Melee + Hate

Aura of Runes Discipline
Class/Level: WAR/66
1: Add Proc: Rune Effect rate mod 200
6: Increase Absorb Damage by 400

As for things you as a druid can do to help him maintain agro, use a smaller heal on incoming if you can until agro is established, this isn't always a choice though if the tank is dropping fast. Another option is to use your heal, hit F8 as mob peels, and be ready to root it or have another toon in group pull it off you. Root parking while healing can be very trying though. A third option, if a class has middling healing spells (rangers, beasts, etc) is for them to initially throw a heal on inc to peel mobs and park them with and Offtank/Pet / Root / etc.

All in all though, agro generation is a team thing, that requires effort of all in group to maintain, and undestanding is a big part of this. Before starting to kill, talk about what you will do in a situation where more than 1-2 mobs are incoming, assign roles, and who is to heal, crowd control, protect the Casters/healers etc etc. Make the most of who you have in group, and when people know their roles beforehand things usually come out better.

Also, on a side note, as others have suggested, work hard towards getting Spell Casting Subtlely maxxed for your level, although for my druid, I only have the first level, since I tend to play bunny kiting often, I didn't want to have to fight to retain agro in those situations. The above worked well for me, without having the SCS AAs, and another suggestion I would recommend as another person said, is to use your CH spell, the 10 sec cast time, will give the warrior further time to establish agro, while still giving you the powerful heal that won't let ya fall as far behind, not always an option, but a good one when it is.

Hope this helps, and goodluck!

[Kianor]

Don't forget root. I realise that if you're healer, you won't always have time to, but lots of other classes can root too. If you have someone else in the group who can root, make them responsible for it. One of the best ghetto crowd controllers I ever grouped with was a wizard.

There are other things that group members can do to help too - the best thing for a group isn't always to assist and attack. For example, it's not always the best thing for a single tank to tank all mobs, especially without a cleric healer. Sometimes druids and shamans just can't keep up with that sort of damage, but another melee - even an unlikely tank such as rogue or beastlord - off tanking one of the mobs makes a difference.

As for what Veril says, I'd suggest evaccing the group the first time, at least. They might get the point.

[Unmei]

While rooting is a helpful tactic in general, I'm pretty sure (and Allas confirms) that Doombugs are immune to changes in runspeed.

[medman]

I got around 30 AA yesterday so I got a lot of things accoumplshed-- I got SCS 3 right after I got inate camo. I made a check list from the Druid AA list on this Board. I am just doing the things that make sense for me to do and max them as far as lvl 65 can take me. Right now I am working on HG 5 and I think I can go to HG 6----- After that I I will do HA and then probably SCR. When I finish my list I will bank 30 then go to 66 and rinse and repeat as I did at 65. In the end it should make me more balanced. I was also wondering about the differance between using the Druid 10 sec heal or the quick heal. I have been using the quick heal becasue of the execptional heal factor. I have not started my 1.5 but I guess I should.
This is really starting to tick me off-- even with SCS 3 I had a 1 heal aggro jump. I am also trying to use my 1.0 first ( after tank has aggro) hoping that it is low hate. If nothing else it puts me another 10 secs into fight.
I am not sure I agree with the self evac advice. it does not let the tank get aggro back. I want to thank all of you for your input and I will talk it over with group mates ( I have not done it much if outside the guild) becasue I think it would show me as such a newb that needs protection.

Willowee

[Cromagnon]

As far as dotting the mob before healing, this is going to increase your relative agro, I'd highly recommend not doing so in primary healer spot, especially since you are already having agro issues. Personally when I'm healing on my druid and want to up the DPS, I use my aoe rain spells, since I don't even have to change targets and they break up how much dmg is hitting at one time, making it more likely for the tank to absorb that dmg with taunt as it is being done. Another option is waiting til mob below 50% and using a DD nuke. Dots are good, but alot of agro in the end, and have to switch targets. Also you can't feather dot damage (choose to not cast another DD, vs mob being dotted and continuing to up your agro).

Secondly, the 10 second heal, is awesome, and I use this any time I can afford to, sure no crit heal, but your heal % AAs will increase it, my 76 druid is around 6k heal with those % heal AAs maxxed. Use this heal as much as you can, and use your quick heals for Named and or to catch up if you fall behind. Another good reason is that if you cast this as your first heal, it gives the tank a 10 second window to establish agro, and low mana. Yes they don't crit, but look at the mana cost in comparison to your patch heals, much much better scenario there, just my advice though.

[Tanom]

Well the quick heals is the main source of healer's aggro it draws the most aggro and if u heal the tank too early it dont matter the initial aggro he/she got u will grab it if u didnt max out the whole Spell casting subtlety line. The 10 sec heal is our "Complete" heal wish will keep both ur aggro low and mana up. But it is unreliable as u dont have a hot spell to keep the tank up while u cast it. What I normally do is use my medium cast time heal (Pure Life now) for spamming and only rely on the quicker heals on emergency, my other trick is only to start healing the tank when he is at 70%. However if the tank has low AC or HP or u are doing a challenging zone start heals at 80%. This may not be as realiable as you are a lower level and your heals arent as efficient for this expansion but maybe it will help.

[Grungloe]

Get some friends and go through the DoD 68 mission arc.
Complete arc, get Skin of the Reptile.
Level to 68, use Reptile.
Relax. Enjoy.

The healing from Reptile generates hate for the one you cast it on (hopefully, the tank). A hybrid with healing gift AAs can crit heal themselves for 1200 hp.

Staying at 65 is a poor choice because it is not one of the plateaus in power, but rather almost to 68 which is a radical change in a druid's life. The health healed per mana with reptile is much higher than any other healing spell you have or will have provided you are fighting multiple Light Blue+ mobs.

There is also word that it is being retuned on Test right now after all the knights complaining about their similar lines being nerfed... so expect a jump in power there again.

About the only other word of advice I can give is to get the Combat Agility/Stability lines of AAs to rank 3. 10% boost to avoidance and mitigation for 12 AAs each.

[Vasei]

Agreeing with Grungloe on leveling, primarily for the reasons given. Also, it seems that heal aggro is exaggerated when you're low-level. At 65, those bugs are dark red to you, so of course they're going to go for the easy meal.

Sure, AA are important, but xp is crappy when you're dead. If that zone is going to be your stomping ground, I'd shoot for a level where they're at least yellow-con.

[Cromagnon]

Along the same lines as the last two posts, I personally would recommend moving your druid to level 71, which IMO is the best level to work AAs and regear.

At 71 the TSS Quest Armor (Tenish Armor Quests in Crescent Reach, aka Ancient Molds) becomes available, good xp camps and other drops available as you work them. Gear is 200+ HP/MANA. And if you get the "powersources" to upgrade the armor you get nice mods and focus.

At 70 you can use the first of the new sets of cultural, which has great stats, hp/mana, and mods, though is relatively expensive and without Last Bloods or similar type 12s isn't necessarily amazing.

But the main reason, for bringing a druid to 71, is that you now get your new pacify and new charm spells. In icefall you can now begin to reverse charm kite, which is amazing experience, even if it is high risk. Personally I myself used the adolescent dire wolves near the Steppes zone in, b/c all of them can be charmed, plenty available, and they have Taunt, as well as high dps, and relative low hps (for the zone).

If ya want any tips on how to reverse charm kite let me know, but 100% AA at 71 doing this i was getting 4-6blue per mob, and they get mowed down insanely fast, as you are getting dps from charmed mob and non charmed mob to count for you.

Hope this helps,
Crom

[Brohg]

Healing agro seems more pronounced in lower levels because tank agro is comparatively anemic.

[Sorkin]

Assuming the rest of your group is about your level, pulling 4 unrootable reds is going to get you killed. It's not you doing something wrong, it's just the nature of the "risk" in "risk vs reward." A group is not supposed to be able to handle 4 reds in camp without CC (and a mezzer would be the only CC in that case.) SCS can help, and Healing Adept (rather that gift) can help, but none of it is going to keep you alive with 4 reds in camp and a warrior tanking. The warrior won't be able to maintain enough aggro on all of the mobs to keep you alive, regardless of what AAs you have. A higher level SK with good gear so that you can chain cast Karana's Renewal might work, but really, if you don't have an FDer or bard pulling (or chanter), you'll either need to harmony pull the mobs yourself, or just have succor loaded and start casting as soon as you see too many mobs incoming.