A plea for help and a warning to all

[Stephen51]

As this incident unravels before me, I don’t really know what else to do, I don’t know how long this will stay in this forum so I will post around various class sites in the hope that it raises awareness of what may become a problem for others and more importantly get the attention of a SOE employee far enough up the chain to take a look at the incident (080428-000983, 080503-000485, 080505-000287), and maybe see that there has been a terrible mistake.

On the 19th of April, after our guild raid, I went with guild friends into the Mechmatic Guardian to update a quest that I had. There was me Glormane (Paladin), my girlfriend Invest,(Druid), guild mates Fure, (Druid) and Ozman (warrior), who had 2 boxed accounts Tilomini and Rmahnee (Shaman and Cleric). We are all lvl 80, at DPOB standard but with the new SOF group armour, and all of us have a few aa’s ranging from about 700, to 2800 on the main accounts.

We had a few false starts, firstly because we were still in the raid instanced (Razarthorn) when I got the Guardian instanced so we had 2 instances at the same time, and when we zoned in it was just pitch black,(though I could see my UI). We had to drop the instanced and get a new one. Secondly Tilo was added to group after I got the mission so wasn’t part of it, and as she tried to zone in got booted and killed, Rmahnee went out to rez her, while we killed a few mobs in the 1st leg.

What after that was fairly mundane stuff, we killed/invis hopped mobs, killed a named which we backtracked for a little (named don’t pop as instanced is created, rather after you are in the instanced a while/after so many mobs were killed), we died, got rezzed, pushed on, found the new clicky portal items, died again, pushed on, in the hope of getting a task update. Finally at around 4am GMT on the 20th, after a mini wipe, with mobs closing in, we evaced and called it a day.

About 2 weeks later Ozman tried to load up Rmahnee and Tilomini to find the accounts were closed. When he enquired why he was told that they had been found using 3rd party software in the guardian to clear mobs by exploitative means and had been banned.

A week or so later Ozmans account was also banned for being associated with the other 2 accounts. This meant that he could no longer petition in game (no access to petition screen), get telephone help (SOE employees could only discuss open accounts) and could not use on-line help (account details came back incorrect, as they were closed), so unfortunately he could no longer communicate with SOE.

The Eula states, that SOE can, without any notice or refund, suspend an account, sadly for Ozman, he had paid for his accounts for 2 years in advance.

Now most of you don’t know me or Oz, this is just words on a screen to you, who says we aren’t hackers, and I have no hard evidence I can put forward to you, I am no computer techy, I play the game I don’t know how its coded.

I was however in an instanced zone for going on 6 hours killing mobs the good old fashioned way by hitting them, and I saw no evidence of any explotative behaviour. Our group as you can see by the make up was a fairly standard one, for killing mobs in a conventional fashion. We only obtained one piece of loot in the 6 hours, not because we were unlucky, we only backtracked to kill a named once, but because camping named was not our primary goal here. SOE claimed Rmahnee and Tilomini had instantly killed mobs by way of 3rd party software that was prohibited.

I am appalled and scared at how arbitrarily SOE have banned my friend, and do not seem (at face value) to have a very efficient way of dealing with appeals, though they have been very polite, its again just words, because my friend remains banned and now, another group member who petitioned because he was afraid he was going to be banned, was told by a GM he would not be banned unless he too used 3rd party software, and then had a further message from a Senior GM saying they were considering banning him, for association with someone using 3rd party software.

Now I understand we have been plagued by spammers, and that as technology advances, so does the ability to hack programs, even one as large and secure as EQ, but I know categorically that my friend did not hack the game. Not because I trust him, not because I’ve been guilded with him for about 6 years. Not because he told me he wasn’t hacking. I know because I was THERE, and I post this in the hope of raising the awareness not just of other players, some of whom may have been banned or will be banned , but also that someone at SOE will see this and nip it in the bud. If anyone has any constructive advice about how I can help prove my friends innocence, please post on the SOE boards or on one of the sites I will post it on.

[Samanna]

Probably nothing said here will go over well.

However:
1. You were grouped with said toons in that instance; and
2. Said toons were banned for exploiting in that instance; doesn't necessarily mean that
3. Said toons were banned for what happened when you were grouped with them.

Those toons may have exploited at another time, and may have had another person operating them (accounts compromised).

SOE expressed to us at the last summit that they do not insta-ban any accounts; some activity may flag an account for closer scrutiny, and subsequent scrutiny may result in banning.

[Tordail]

I will just be quiet on this one, because I have nothing real good to post ... but I will note that what I presume is Stephen51's post on this has already been deleted at EQLive.

[Stephen51]

Its been moved yes, to the customer service area, which I cant access.

As to Sams comments, I hadnt thought of what you are suggesting, when Oz was in a possition to petition SOE sited an actual incident, stating time, zone, etc, yet what you are suggesting is that it happened at another time. If so why would soe go into so much detail on what they did within the instanced? I understand why giving too much information out on banned activities could give people ideas but isnt that a bit odd? As for SoE not insta banning people, you are right, they waited 2 weeks, and then banned him without warning.

[Samanna]

I can't speak for SOE, I was just repeating what we were told and offering another possible situation.

[Khael]

If it was done while you were in the same group, don't you think you would be getting some sort of talking to / warning / suspension for associating with their "exploiting" without reporting it; something like what Ozman received? This, to me, indicates that whatever went down (if anything) did so at another time than when you were grouped with them. It's understandable that you'd want to trust your friend, but it seems like you don't have the full story yourself.

[dindaur]

got logs stephen?

[Stephen51]

Sam and Khael , I wasnt getting at you, apologies if I sounded a bit tetchy, I understand what you were told by SoE, but my friend on petitioning was told specifically told of the day, time and zone he was in when the software was used. To Din, no I dont keep logs, I wish I had, even though I've been told SOE wont accept them as evidence, because again they can be amended, as they are just notepad text (still wish I had, and I've started now). So what you are suggesting could mean one of two things.

Firstly SOE are not giving the correct information out on potential hackers in case it gives away too much information. Although this keeps things very secure for SOE, it makes it near impossible if a mistake is made.

Or it could be my friend is lying. SOE are telling him his banning is actually a different time and date, and he is using me to mask his violation. This would be possible apart from the fact that the other person in the instanced who petitioned to support his friend/question whether he would be banned was first told he wouldnt be banned, as no third party software was used by him, THEN was told he was under consideration to be banned for receiving the one piece of loot that came out of the 6 hour crawl. That to me is pretty specific.

[dindaur]

the best you can do is just make an honest post/message to them, just write that you sincerely have nothing to do with this, ask friends to vouch for your character in their own letters, and if you can make enough noise about it, they will look at what you have to say, and they do apply reason that can help you.

good luck

[Galelor]

I removed the post as it was not constructive, and more of a pottie-mouthed rant.

[dindaur]

i think the biggest mistake anyone can make when they've been wrongfully banned is to keep quiet and move on. the more awareness you bring the more people within the community take notice and the devs do listen to the community when the community makes noise.

[Kakimor]

About the only thing i can think of is does Ozz use WinEQ when boxing. Technically it is third party software .....

[Hecude Poison`Blood]

[Szaris]

I was browsing some of the old posts and came across this one. I registered specifically to respond.

I didn't see that a resolution was reached in this matter, but I wanted to post something similar that happened to a guild mate and I.

On Thursday 1/8, our guild ran a Mining Behemoth raid in The Steam Factory. To cut to the chase, near the end of the fight we began to get over run by brownies and a wipe was ensuing. Eventually, our raid was down to a ranger and I, a necromancer, with The Mining Behemoth at 0% health. The ranger weaponshielded and I loaded on a couple last DoT's and resumed FD. One last tick of a few DoT's was just able to kill him with the ranger @ 4% health. Needless to say, we were pretty happy as the ranger and I are friends and fellowship-mates ( is that a word?). We rezzed and moved on. I looted a Whirring Rune and the ranger looted nothing.

Forward to Friday 1/9. I got home from work and found an email from SOE stating that my account had been suspended 10 days and rolled back 22 saves ( what exactly 22 saves means, I don't know precisely). I was able to speak with my ranger friend, who told me he had spoken directly with a GM who advised him that this suspension was due to the two of us using 3rd party program(s) to kill a raid mob. Needless to say, I was flabergasted. Emails to SOE followed, three of them, to be exact, and all three times getting a canned response citing the EULA and stating that this would not be reversed and they had 'conclusive evidence.' (I had included logs in 2 of the first three emails I had sent, one of which contained the /who I performed about 25 secs after the fight, showing 36 *RIP*'s and 2 live PC's-- 1 log was mine and another was from another guild mate that participated in the raid.) After requesting that this incident be reviewed by a supervisor, I got a response on Saturday evening from a 4th GM stating that they aplogize for this suspension and our characters were being restored to pre-suspension states. They had reviewed the entire log and found that, indeed, we did not kill The Mining Behemoth as a duo as they had initially thought.

The point here is that they do make mistakes, even if they are reluctant to admit it. Had we just accepted it and moved on, they probably never would have taken a second look at it.

Now it's become somewhat of a running joke in our guild; don't try to save the raid-- just die rather than risking a suspension. It's funny now, but it sure wasn't at the time.

[Zyrek]

I find it ridiculous that soe is so quick to ban innocent players for putting up with their bullshit or having some skill, while doing nothing about the hundreds of hackers that continue to play undisturbed.

[Unmei]

[Szaris]

I understand and appreciate SOE's efforts to minimize/stop hacking. What I don't care for is when they take action against a subscribers account with very minimal investigation done.

Is it too much to ask to have someone review the incident PRIOR to suspending the account rather than after?

[HawklordXegony]

The initial suspension might be part of an automated process. I definitely believe the FIRST GM should have restored the suspended account instead of acting like a bot.

[Unmei]

[Zyrek]

[HawklordXegony]

[Zyrek]

Im sorry, here's what i should have posted:


Way to state the obvious! Of course it is part of their efforts eliminate the problem, but maybe I, like everyone else, think they could be doing a better job of it, and am stepping out to offer my sympathy for those that had to suffer for it? I never presumed anything, sorry I responded.

[Findlay-The-Faithful]

The problem is you can't tell when someone is using 'third party software' by looking at them or grouping with them. Sony can see more than you or I, unless the person you are grouped with does something obviously weird in front of you. They also only ban repeat offenders, so the people were not banned simply for this instance. People also will always claim innocense, if they are innocent or not.

So yo can't say they were not using third party software because they say they were not, and you can't say they were not using third party software because you didn't see it, and you can't really claim to know if they had used it in the past or if Sony banned them on the first instance of seemingly exploiting. All of that is purely guesses on your part.