Combat Effects & Procs - split from Alchemy thread.

[Caanus Grey]

The reason a high end toon will out DPS a bazaar bard is Combat Effects gear (more procs) and Weapon Affinity AA (more procs) as well as Crit nuke AAs.

[Lickity]

[Samanna]

[Scowls]

[Brohg]

[Samanna]

Split this off from Alchemy thread.

[Caanus Grey]

Heh heh, looks like I opened a can of beans when I put my foot in my mouth on that one.

Honestly I got no clue if WA and CE affect actual proc rates, no more than I know if dex buffing actually does (or if it affects wizard nuke crits). I still whip out everything I can and hear plenty of feedback that it is workin well every time I do it.

I dunno, I've seen a LOT of info (even entries in Lucy database) about proc rates, and the funny thing is that most of the people who go into tirades about how lower delay means more procs per swing, but overall the same average procs per minute never mention even the effect of DEX on proc rates, let alone CE and WA. Sure it may be hard coded that weapons proc 2/minute for base... but at what dex? Or do you also maintain that dex won't affect proc rates at all either?


Anywho... I got no numbers to back up any of my views and never really will. I play any way that can get me in a bodybag and generate some good stories/memories of the game

[Grokii]

More dex means more procs.

Attack speed affects procs. The slower your weapon, the higher the chance. The theory is that it should even out allowing a 2h to proc at a higher % but about the same number of times a minute as a fast 1h weapon.

This can be seen by dueling someone with the OT proc hammer, slow them, and then watch them proc out in the next swing or two. Or don't slow them and watch them wiff about 15 times before procing.

I think leopard/panther screws up the old formula. A dual wielding class with fast weapons procs leopard more then a knight with a slow 2h. I didn't parse this, I just duo with a SK a lot... I know what leopard procs when he has his slow 2h DPS weapon out. And I know how monk/warriors/rangers proc leopard when I group with them. It isn't even close... the monk/warriors/rangers get more procs per minute when dual wielding fast weapons.

4x the normal proc rate of the panther line breaks the old equasions in favor of fast weapons. That's my opinion because I haven't parsed it, but I welcome someone to parse it an confirm/deny it.

[Smint]

Dex above 255 does nothing.
Plenty on procrates on TSW and afaik none of it is out of date.
Not sure on the panther stuff, dont have many parses floating about, but it doesnt seem any different between 2h classes and duelwield to me.

[shamy60]

[Yesak]

[Lickity]

[Caanus Grey]

[Scowls]

proved time and again that WA doesnt affect casted procs...

1 where is this PROVED time and again, keep in mind we only guess at what is happening in the game, soe keeps all that info a pretty good secret

2 I didnt say it did. I said high end monks/rogues, with butloads of aa attack and stuff, with max worn haste.. all that crap DPS look for.

when you talk about higher delay increasing the chance to proc,keep in mind, if you hit (or miss) the target 10 times in 1 minute....you can have a max of 10 procs (per proc, counting weapon procs, augs procs, innates). Now if you duel weild 2 wicked weapon (sorry im a shaman and a bard in game, i dont keep up on the latest pointy things) and hit/miss the mob 100 times a minute...guess who is gonna have more procs per minute

I hate all this parsing crap, mostly because it breaks it down to ticks, which is short enough to show what ever info you wish to manipulate the numbers to show. Without parsing, i can easily see in game that the monk is over there procing non-stop and the palkly has proced 6 times and the buff is about to wear out.

lets use some common sence when tossing around info. high weapon delay may/probably increases proc rates...but so what if you actually swing at the mob almost never, you cant possibly proc if you arent actually taking a swing

[Lickity]

[brett_sc]

[Yesak]

[Lickity]

[Scowls]

[Lickity]

[Wudoman]

[Caanus Grey]

[Lickity]

[Grokii]

Here's something....

having a weapon that has a 100hp proc... Doesn't matter if you give it to a SK/monk/warrior whomever... regardless of how much they are hasted... they should get the same number or procs.

Now, lets say this weapon isn't lore. Lets let the warriors/monks duel wield this same weapon... will they get more procs then the SK/Paladins that can't dual wield?

Now does this work with leopard now? If you cast leopard on a duel wielders, they should get more procs per minute then someone that doesn't duel wield... correct? All else being equal of course.

[Lickity]

Yeah, you average 10ppm on main hand, 5ppm on offhand (assuming DEX is of optimum values.)

Comes to about 66DPS from main hand procs, 33DPS on offhand for about 100 DPS per dual wielding target (including pets.)

I haven't parsed extensive numbers for 2h procs, but in the past they have been the same as as the main hand in dual wield, i wouldn't expect it to increase, but I did see an SK I was parsing in RSS the other day seem to get about 25% more procs than the others in the group, he didnt have any CE, WA or anything to increase his normal rate, and was using a 1h and a shield, but it was a short parse, so far from definitive.

[Grokii]

[OMGcookiecrisp]

[Yesak]

[Grokii]

[Smint]

[Grokii]

[Brohg]

The SK issue was with all of their proc-affecting AA. People get warped into bizarro world and natural disasters wrack all of Norrath if SK's proc normal effects.

[brett_sc]

[Lickity]

[Veril]

[Lickity]

[Caanus Grey]

[Swobu_AB]

[Scowls]

[Veril]