Lets discuss a "Revamped top 10" !

[GrimbearEQ]

Ok guys .. this will be the discussion thred for the changes id like to make to our "Top 10 list" ... Yes I would like to make a lot of changes in one fell swoop here . I feel they are needed and judgeing by the feedback you have givin me most of you agree .. Firstly here is our CURRENT top 10

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1. Improve shaman DPS and burst DPS. "Perhaps through alterations to the "Panther/leopard" line of buffs tweeking them untill they reach the desired level of Shaman DPS / Burst DPS." (currently being evaluated) - Most likely this will be considered as part of the class re-envisioning

2. AE Malos or lose the insane recast delay on Malos. (currently being evaluated)

3. Make FA less of a hassle, 25 minute duration, 5 second recast. (currently being evaluated)

4. An upgrade or addition to the Cannibalization AA ability, allowing (at the same ratio), greater or more frequent conversions of HP to Mana. Also consider the possibility of a "Hastened Cannibalization" AA ability perhaps with three ranks .. each purchased rank reduceing the recast of the Canibalization AA by 10%. (currently being evaluated) - Most likely this will be considered as part of the class re-envisioning

5. Add direct combat effects to all of our level 60+ stat buffs. (currently being evaluated) - Most likely this will be considered as part of the class re-envisioning

6. Give Shamans a group version of our Haste spell . As it stands now we have single target 60% haste and Group version 50% haste . It is very inconvinent to have to target buff everyone in order to gain our full potential haste. (currently being evaluated)

7. Endurance regen buff. (currently being evaluated) - Most likely this will be considered as part of the class re-envisioning

8. Shaman Survivability, Shamans are the least durable of the Slowing classes. This makes it highly risky for us to fufill our role. Please increase a shamans ability to survive the inevitable agro that slowing often draws. (Currently being evaluated) - Most likely this will be considered as part of the class re-envisioning
1. Consider the following AA as a strongly supported option from the community .
1. We propose a new shaman aa called Defense of the Arcane Spirits.
2. This aa would have three levels, available at level 63 / 65 / 67, costing 6 / 9 / 12 aa points.
3. This aa would be insta-cast. The refresh time for this aa would be 9 minutes at level 1; 6.75 minutes at level 2; 4.5 minutes at level 3.
4. Melees get a variety of mitigation tools with differing refresh times. Most relevantly, Beastlords get a similar function, Protective Spirit, with a refresh time of 3 min 54 seconds; and Clerics get several such functions .
5. This aa would reduce the Damage Interval portion of incoming melee damage by 75% for 4 ticks (18-24 seconds).
6. The proposed aa length, 4 ticks, is longer by one tick than the druid mitigation buff and some of the cleric effects. That's because the shaman is designed to fill the main healer role through a process that takes time: [debuff] / slow / heal. To address this, the shaman's emergency ability should be at least one tick longer (enough for Turgur's or Nihil, followed by gem refresh). The shaman still generates additional hate with this slow, but at least he will be less fragile for a tick longer. And once he turns 'vulnerable' again, he will be able to actually heal.
2. Improve the root spell line
3. increase ac/hp of pets
4. increase dodge cap
5. Allow shaman to block using a shield
6. Increase shaman mitigation/avoidance
7. Better shaman itemization

9. TGB "Target Group Buff" Group shrink spell that effects people out of your group. (Currently being evaluated)

10. TBA

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Here is what the top 10 would look like AFTER I make the changes I would like to make . please note .. on new issues i am NOT putting exact detailed wording at this time .. There is still a couple weeks before my "window" to alter the 10 list opens up . During this time Exact wording of the issues will be discussed here in this thred and likely in outhers as well . this is JUST to show an aprox frame of what i would like to do ...

Also id like to take a moment to say something here ... There seems to be a "Mis-Conception" amoungst some in the community that the order of the 10 list is signifigant . As in Issue number 1 holds more importance than number 10 . I would like to assure you that this is NOT the case . The "ordering" of the 10list is NOT an order of importance . All issues are considered to be feedback expressed by the community .

Just wanted to clear that up .

So , that being said .. heres my Preposed 10 list re-vamp ...


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#1 Improve shaman DPS and burst DPS. "Perhaps through alterations to the "Panther/leopard" line of buffs tweeking them untill they reach the desired level of Shaman DPS / Burst DPS." (currently being evaluated) - Most likely this will be considered as part of the class re-envisioning .

#2 AE Malos or lose the insane recast delay on Malos. (currently being evaluated)

#3 A more modern movement buff "Improved Bhi'li" .

#4 An upgrade or addition to the Cannibalization AA ability, allowing (at the same ratio), greater or more frequent conversions of HP to Mana. Also consider the possibility of a "Hastened Cannibalization" AA ability perhaps with three ranks .. each purchased rank reduceing the recast of the Canibalization AA by 10%. (currently being evaluated) - Most likely this will be considered as part of the class re-envisioning .

#5 Some form of CASTABLE Group Heal 'Most likely a group HoT" .

#6 Give Shamans a group version of our Haste spell . As it stands now we have single target 60% haste and Group version 50% haste . It is very inconvinent to have to target buff everyone in order to gain our full potential haste. (currently being evaluated)

#7 Endurance regen buff. (currently being evaluated) - Most likely this will be considered as part of the class re-envisioning

#8 Shaman Survivability, Shamans are the least durable of the Slowing classes. This makes it highly risky for us to fufill our role. Please increase a shamans ability to survive the inevitable agro that slowing often draws. (Currently being evaluated) - Most likely this will be considered as part of the class re-envisioning

1. Consider the following AA as a strongly supported option from the community .
1. We propose a new shaman aa called Defense of the Arcane Spirits.
2. This aa would have three levels, available at level 63 / 65 / 67, costing 6 / 9 / 12 aa points.
3. This aa would be insta-cast. The refresh time for this aa would be 9 minutes at level 1; 6.75 minutes at level 2; 4.5 minutes at level 3.
4. Melees get a variety of mitigation tools with differing refresh times. Most relevantly, Beastlords get a similar function, Protective Spirit, with a refresh time of 3 min 54 seconds; and Clerics get several such functions .
5. This aa would reduce the Damage Interval portion of incoming melee damage by 75% for 4 ticks (18-24 seconds).
6. The proposed aa length, 4 ticks, is longer by one tick than the druid mitigation buff and some of the cleric effects. That's because the shaman is designed to fill the main healer role through a process that takes time: [debuff] / slow / heal. To address this, the shaman's emergency ability should be at least one tick longer (enough for Turgur's or Nihil, followed by gem refresh). The shaman still generates additional hate with this slow, but at least he will be less fragile for a tick longer. And once he turns 'vulnerable' again, he will be able to actually heal.
2. Improve the root spell line
3. increase ac/hp of pets
4. increase dodge cap
5. Allow shaman to block using a shield
6. Increase shaman mitigation/avoidance
7. Better shaman itemization

#9 A more modern and usefull version of bearform .

#10 An AA ability that reduces the Re-use time on VP aa .

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Again please note on the new issues there still a LOT of feedback to be gathered before i decide on exact wording . This is just a rough idea of where i think we as a community would like to go with our "Top 10 list " .

Thanks for listening and as all ways thank you to everyone whom has taken there time to offer valuable input in the various POLL's/Threds I have made lately . Its very appriciated !

[Aruman]

#1 I sure hope SoE is considering something along these lines.
#2 Isn't really an issue I don't think. I don't have anything 'bad' to say about our Root spells.
#3 Give us some kind of pet focus via a level based continuing quest or something to make it interesting instead of EverCamp.
#4 or #5 I agree with, but not both. Improve Dodge or Allow blocking with a Shield.
#6 No opinion really since I don't have real expeerience in GoD and OoW without the AA.
#7 Definitley with regard to certain Focus effects in higher tier encounters. Spell Haste in particular is a PITA, along with the Poison focus.
#9 Agree
#10 I could go either way with this one. I myself think VP is good the way it is.

[Telosk]

Suprsied combining a few of our many buffs isn't on that list (might, sense, sta together).

[Scowls]

since i know that an endurance regen spell will never happpen (dev dont want melee depending on it like KEI addicts), i wouldnt mind seing Shaman added to pet focus gear, or pet isnt the strongerst pet in the game, but he has been a very useful can highly used companion since we were able to summon one

[Cascet Wurmhardt]

Ok, bare with me its a quarter to 6AM and I've had 1 cup of coffee .

1. ...I think we're fine in this area, but I guess the community doesn't so I'll leave this one alone for others.
2. This one is something that I think I would cry big happy tears of joy if it ever happened. I still can't for the life of me see how a regular recast or no recast on malos would be game breaking. Malos should follow a little more closley to the tash line, hell...I wouldnt mind added aggro to have it have NO recast and fast casting. Something, anything to reduce the gayness that is malos is great.
3. Yes please.
4. Would be very nice.
5. Would be nice, but I dont see it happening. We're already good healers. We out heal druids with our HoTs when it comes to effeciency. I can keep a group alive in a nasty AE way better than any druids of equal AA/Gear. If we get another boost to healing, other classes are going to cry about us encrouching (sorry if I butchered that word) upon thier territory. I think personaly, that a group heal should go to a druid before us. I know I'm totaly going against the grain here, but as is...I have no problem filling the MH role in just about anything that isnt well, a raid mob. A group heal would be great, don't get me wrong. I would love to have a choice of 3 group heals or all 3 at 1 time in an emergancy. I would love to be able to heal for nearly 2k a tick with crits the size of a patch heal when I stack them. But can you really see something like this happening? Druids would throw a fit, Clerics would get thier panties in a bunch and I'm willing to bet pallies wouldn't be too happy either (dunno why...just dont see em being the happy type though :p). I think that this one isnt something we should hold our breath over.
6. Again, we already slow better than enchanters, we buff better than them (so to speak)....why should we haste as well as them too? So, if you want a better haste you have to work for it, otherwise suffer with a little less for less hassle. I don't think this should be on our top 10, maybe a wish list of sorts, but not the top 10.
7. Would be a brilliant idea if they let us have it.
8. Another brilliant idea. I hope they pay close attention to this one
9. Eh, either way on this. Would be cool to get a different bear form with some real use in today's world
10. Either way on this again. I don't think that its a very big deal as I like VP the way it is. I don't consider my self CC unless in emergancy situations, so having something like this isn't something I would invest AA in till I had way more than I do now.

I know I don't feel the same way as some of the community on some of these issues. I like my shaman as is and don't feel that there is anything that needs to be drastically improved upon (aside from MALOS!). My DPS contribution to groups is wanted by the people I regularly group with, I heal well in just about any situation, and people dont seem to mind my pidly little haste. I don't want to become a super powered master of everything. We already shine now, I don't want to outshine everyone else.

[Lickity]

[gurgul]

[jdthomas]

[Veril]

[Hunkan]

[Swobu_AB]

[Froggar]

[Caanus Grey]

[Galelor]

[Brohg]

[jdthomas]

[Brohg]

[Veril]

[KantorZek]

[Brohg]

[Ungkor]

[KantorZek]

[Swobu_AB]

1. Ok, not what I would describe as essential, since DPS by proxy with Panther is OK. Lower resists would sort this.
2. Huge YES PLEASE recast delay on Malos sends me bonkers and an AE version is ages overdue.
3. Couldn't care less about this issue, travel buffs are irrelevant unless they have a long lasting levitate option.
4. Hastened Canni AA please. I don't want to ask for a more efficient version, just a shorter reuse timer will do nicely.
5. Definately needed and since HoT was first a shaman ability it's justifiable. There's no chance of us getting a group DD heal anyway.
6. Talisman of Alacrity could use an upgrade, it's not much to ask anyway.
7. No thanks and not likely to ever get it anyway. This is an issue for the pure melee to campaign over not us.
8. Ok, can manage fine without, but would be nice to have some emergency AA DAish short term skill.
9. Nice but non essential, I like to melee, if we had a new bearform build in double attack and self overcap haste would be my vote.
10. Hmm ok, I only use VP in emergencies anyway and our normal root line works fine if root rotting as we malos the target if we have any sense. Of course roots of all kind are pointless if we use dogdog with Panther as the dd proc busts roots immediately.

[Gaknab]

#1. Most of the High end shaman don't really have a problem with putting out DPS. Any Shaman with decent gear, the proper AA's and the important foci should be able to put out 400 or so DPS in your average xp group which isn't all that bad. Our DPS problems are mostly related to two things 1) raids and the difficutly of landing most of our spells on raid targets and 2) lower end / casual players who really get screwed by Spirit of the Panther and that line of spells becuase they lack Foci/AA's and the mana pool to be able to do much beyond malos/slow and panther the melee/pets in thier group over and over becuase the duration on Panther is so small.

#2. The recast time on Malos is insane. I would agree to a hell of a lot of negative side effects in order for it to be more on par with Tash. AE Malos would be incredible, but I don't have much faith in ever seeing it implemented.

#3. An upgraded Spirit of the Bih'li spell would be very useful. Something including Lev/Sow/+Attack/Enduring Breath/See Invis or some combination of those abilities would be in demand.

#4. I honestly would like to see a line of AA's that would improve our Mass Canni ability or hasten it's reuse timer. It's something that has been done before for class defining abilities of other classes. However on the other hand there is nothing currently wrong with Shaman Mana regen. At present we regain mana faster than any other class in EQ by a LARGE margin. Personally I have to try REALLY hard over an extended period of time to run my self out of mana. I can go all out in xp groups tossing dot's, malos, slows, heals, cc'ing, the odd nuke and keep champion and panther up on the group for almost half an hour before I'm forced to pop Spiritual Channelling to recover.

#5. Yes Please!

#6. This has been an issue forever and it makes so much sense and is such a small thing that I can't for the life of me compreheand why it has not been changed yet. Group Haste % should = Single Target Haste % otherwise why would anyone cast the damd spell?

#7. I could see an Endurance "Heal" like Invigor used to do for stamina being useful but not a "Crack" like line of endurance regen buffs. The Devs have already stated that they will not impliment an endurance regen buff becuase they do not want melee's relying on us like crack dealers. So perhaps the endurance "heal" is the way to go.

#8. Most of this I do not agree with. I remember being splattered all over most of Norrath by just about every MoB you can think of since I started playing EQ before Kunark was released. However the vast majority of times I've died it's because I did something stupid and deserved it or someone in the party wasn't pulling thier wieght. How survivable Shaman are as a class has nothing to do with either reason. I do however like the suggestion of allowing shaman to block with our sheilds (Why else are we carrying one? to make us look pretty?) And I STRONGLY agree with fixing Shaman itemization especially in regurds to Focus Effects and how they are distributed accross our gear slots to reduce conflicts, especially in the high end. I agree so much so that I think this one thing should be it's own seperate issue.

#9. A graphically updated and improved effect Bearform would be nice to have and useful but I'm not sure if it's a major issue. Personally as a troll I always hated turning into a bear. Perhaps change this to updated PC and gear graphics. My toon has looked basically the same since Luclin was released. It's getting VERY old.

#10. About the only time I use VP is when soloing, root spliting or cc'ing. It's a very useful mana free root with a resist mod that makes it land on most things so it's actually useful. Being able to use it more often would be very useful but might be unbalancing. However an AA to hasten it's reuse time would be very cool.

One other thing I want to add. Anything related to the Time's Antithesis has absolutely NO place on this list. Once we start talking about a rare drop item, from a locked zone it's effecting the minority and I was under the impression that is a list for things that effect the majority of shaman.

In reguards for the specific issue about making the TA inventory clickable all I have to say is asking for the Developers to make a change to the game itself becuase you are lazy is unreal. Learn to use the bandolier, you can even script a button to swap in your precious TA, click it and then swap it out all with one press of a button. It can't get any easier than that.

[Ungkor]

[Xrat]

#1 Improve shaman DPS and burst DPS.
Nice but I do more dps than most tanks in my group and dps is not our class roll

#2 AE Malos
can be usefull, but with BoN, BoD the need for malos has drasticly been reduced

#3 A more modern movement buff "Improved Bhi'li" .
out door only spell upgrade hmm, can be nice but does it belong in top 10, not in my oppinion


#4 An upgrade or addition to the Cannibalization AA ability
Always nice

#5 Some form of CASTABLE Group Heal 'Most likely a group HoT" .
This is something I REALY want. A true lack in the shaman class, should be number one if you ask me. I have problems main healing raid groups when mobs AE often. During exp groups I can only heal 1 person at a time from blood agro. and in situations like the charming named in RSS a group heal would rock


#6 Give Shamans a group version of our Haste spell .
agree


#7 Endurance regen buff. (currently being evaluated) - Most likely this will be considered as part of the class re-envisioning
agree, our Ward used to be endurance regen, would not mind to have it set back to that.


#8 Shaman Survivability
would love it, but to be honost it might overpower our solo abilities

#9 A more modern and usefull version of bearform .
hmm, I only have 20 buff slots, not much room for bearform, and if we get a new version update bear moddle as well

#10 An AA ability that reduces the Re-use time on VP aa .
its fast enough to chain root 1 mob with 3 ranks, do we want to be able to chain root 2 mobs?

In general I think there are some nice sugestions here, but only a few would I consider important issues for shaman (class ballance).
Group heal spell is something that I think the shaman class is realy lacking, and a real issue is our group haste vs single target haste.


Some other nice things for shamans might be
- unique spell potions
- tougher pet (now it is one rounded by enraged raid trash), a buff or focus item might keep our pet allive long enough to press pet hold.
- Pet that runs at SoW speed! I dont want to cast spirit of the wolf on a wolf spirit :p

[XeroOmega]

just to point out, "Hastened Canni" has more support in the community than a "Larger Canni", most of the average shaman won't have but slightly more than 2x the HP it currently takes.

a Hastened Canni is better for both lower and higher levels. but I just want to see an improvement to the line, it has just been untouched for far too long, in my opinion. it would be easy to do the math (you can do it, its 4am here, and I'm not gonna bore myself) and come out with a larger canni figure that is just as efficient. and it could be calculated to have the same extent of effect as a hastened canni. but the fact remains that more people in the community can use a hastened form rather than a larger form.

[Veril]

[quote="Gaknab]One other thing I want to add. Anything related to the Time's Antithesis has absolutely NO place on this list. Once we start talking about a rare drop item, from a locked zone it's effecting the minority and I was under the impression that is a list for things that effect the majority of shaman.

In reguards for the specific issue about making the TA inventory clickable all I have to say is asking for the Developers to make a change to the game itself becuase you are lazy is unreal. Learn to use the bandolier, you can even script a button to swap in your precious TA, click it and then swap it out all with one press of a button. It can't get any easier than that.[/quote]

TA is affecting more and more Shaman. There are open time raids on several servers now.

Oh and as fot the 1 button thing, please post the 5 EQ valid macro lines that do this. You cannot, with 1 button using the standard EQ commands switch a weapon in, click it and switch the other weapon back in. Needs 3 buttons. 1 for TA in, 1 for TA to be clicked, 1 for other weapon in. 3 buttons on something as frequent as TA click is too much. (Perhaps if you use MacroQuest or some other EULA breaking tool you can do this)

[Scowls]

[lightus]

[Grokii]

[Litchebane]

[Cronikk]

[Retron]

[Tordail]

[jdthomas]

[Brohg]

[Scowls]

[Brohg]

[Grokii]