AC = ? HP

[Vincenzo]

[Jaraman]

[Henora]

[Brohg]

[Jaraman]

[Bed]

I made some parses against squeaking rats of lvl around 62-65 in forgotten halls, they max hit for around 622 and are full slowable

each parse contain 5 to 6 hours of continous fights

PARSE 1 : 1400AC (715 000 bite damages taken from 205 rats)
average hit : 323
accuracy : 56,6% (mys agility was 16 lower than my max)

PARSE 1 : 1499AC (497 000 bite damages taken from 151 rats)
average hit : 315
accuracy : 55,5% (my agility was 16 lower than my max)

PARSE 1 : 1600AC (685 000 bite damages taken from 213 rats)
average hit : 315
accuracy : 55,5%

PARSE 1 : 1674AC (641 000 bite damages taken from 198 rats)
average hit : 312
accuracy : 55,3% (my agility was 15 lower than my max)


my shield was the same on all parses(ac50 shield cf magelo), i only put off some part of equipment with AC on it(no avoidance of shielding) to lower my AC

first: we can se that avoidance is almost the same on the 4 parses
second: we can see a huge boost in mitigation from 1400 to 1499AC but other parses doesn't show a big difference

i will try to do a 1300AC run asap and if i have time i will try to camp the 20AC aug from mpg for my shield and parse the result compared to the 1674AC run
but first i will kill 100 more rats with 1674AC to verify if the 312 average hit is due to RNG or to the 74more AC

[Samanna]

Bed,

Thanks for the data, but I don't follow your claim (or was that sarcasm?) that a .3% reduction in hits and a 2.5% reduction in average damage taken represents a huge bonus. Perhaps all four of your parsed ACs were above the softcap for those mobs...

[Bed]

[Finori]

[ribeye]

IMO for a raiding shaman the stat bonuses such as dot shielding spell shielding and stun resist are far more important than 100ac. Actually it's not an opinion, it's a fact...

[Bed]

i know that Finori, but they are the only mobs i can tank safely for hours(full slowable and max hit 622)

i would gladdy do some parses on 1k hitters if i could

[siludorf]

[Jaraman]

[Giac]

[Veril]

[Giac]

[Ughbash]

[Veril]

[Giac]

[Fandele Longtooth]

[Scowls]

[Giac]

[Scowls]

there is no way to exclude the evasion skills, they are part of the diff classes, and a very big factor in damage taken. the shaman takes more dmg than a ranger with the same hps (dont matter a bit on how much dmg ou take), ac, worn shileding and avoidance, and defensive AA because the ranger can reposte inc attacks, dodge more, parry, whatever else melee can do. there is probably even more factors in it.

im not saying shaman cant take hits, we all do. (this is a for instance, not directed at anyne in particular) but when you take your 5k hp shaman to dou issalian undead squids with a warrior pulling...the shaman is gonna die when he lands slow on the add, especially if taunt fails. being undergeared or under AA'd for your enviroment is dangerous, and you put yourself at risk to die reall quick.

[Samanna]

[Giac]

[Scowls]

[Jaraman]

[Veril]

The displayed AC number is not directly comparable across classes in terms of damage mitigation. My monk tanks way better than my shaman, takes far less damage with much less AC.

Developers have said this quite some time ago. I've never seen a statement made that contradicts that.

[avelariel]

Natural 'class-based' mitigation makes a really big difference unfortunately; lengthy threads on The Steel Warrior doing some analyses of numbers a while back; the main way in which this applies is the "return on AC above softcap" which is class-dependent, so that - roughly speaking and quoting from memory, a 50AC aug on a shaman returns something like 30% of the benefit that the same aug on a warrior does.

I don't currently remember the order absolutely, but it was something like
warrior->knights->monks->rangers/rogues/zerkers/bards->everyone else and the differences were really quite big (to the extent of consistently taking twice the damage and more, for a priest with the same AC/shielding/avoidance/AA as the warrior)

The only AC which isn't "nerfed" by your class is your shield AC, which applies in full regardless. If you get an AC aug put it in your shield!

I also read the dev comment referred to earlier in the thread, making clear that buff AC is modified just like equipment AC according to your class.

I'm of the opinion that even for, say, bards (and damn it, we're a plate class), HP so outstrips AC in value that I will never, ever choose something because of its AC, unless the ratio were extreme - 2hp:1ac at the very least. shaman are worse off 'per point of AC' than bards are.

[Bigsnack For'Mobs]

[Samanna]

[Kozul]

[Jaraman]

[siludorf]

[Veril]

[quote="siludorf]So during Jelvan, your ramp tank who has more hps than you AND more AC than you died, and you lived.. Doesn't that make you realize that *neither* hps nore ac were the deciding factor in this situation? If everyone played their roles properly, HPS would have helped you more than AC. Specifically, you'd be able to canni with less self heals in between. [/quote]

The pally was fightng with the DA hammer, it all timed badly with the DA procs, so nobody could heal him, until DA dropped and he got another ramp round before anyone could heal him.

Everyone doesn't always play their roles correctly. I was there capable of taking up the role as a backup.

vs Tunat, that's a totally different situation. I am almost always number 2 on the aggro list. Intentionally.

[quote="siludorf]Your examples all seem to be examples where your guild is dropping the ball, but they are able to recover and win regardless due to your AC.[/quote]

When the ramp hits others who have significantly lower AC then me they die. My 1st example refered to another shaman who had 400 ac less then me - he died in 2 ramp rounds.


[quote="siludorf]Basically you did not sell me that given those same exact situations, having 100-200 less AC would have impacted the situation..[/quote]

my 1st example says exactly that. Higher AC means less damage, means I survive more.

[Giac]