Lets Try to Get Something Back

[dindaur]

[Blabberpuss Stryyker]

Asking Nodyin to "make it live" is asking for something to be put in game that will be useless in my book (Hell once they wake up they will prolly be linking Divine Stun and Force of Disruption anyway, after all aren't they both AA stuns?). Asking for a AE to undead 'nuke' is idiotic, and I can't think of one instance where it would be valuable, can you? These two examples for you are the two that come to mind that I have seen here in recent discussion.

The way I feel is that we can't seem to get anything of real value from Sony, they don't extend many of the useful spells we have and upgrade spell lines for us altogether (haste, pacify, HP type one, AC) and I am bitter about the linking of our Burst spells, some of our Stuns, and lastly our pitiful nukes.

I feel as if we aren't picking the right battle. We give up on what could be useful to us, and instead, ask for useless 'bones' so Sony can put a 'check in the box' for the Paladin class.

EDITED: Added pitiful....

[Khael]

[Nodden]

Yeah they're linked, that's why an upgrade would be meaningless.

[dindaur]

[Hulkling]

[dindaur]

(divine stun) exactly, even if i don't directly benefit from it, i don't mind if it helps friends of mine.

[Khael]

There are two things that spring to mind when I think about possible spell improvements;

1) As mentioned in another thread, either increase the duration for the Aegolism line (was denied) or give us a group version for when we're not grouped with a druid or cleric. Even with decent spellhaste it takes a full minute to buff an entire group with OP - and we have to redo it every hour. I can't think of any other class that has such a painful job, besides maybe shamans - and they get AA's and stuff to relieve that (Quickbuff).
2) There's been some discussion about perhaps merging/combining the strengths of the Light and the Touch line in other threads. I would love to see Light/Touch get some well-deserved uptuning to balance it with Burst some more. I see no reason why Light should have as bad efficiency as Burst, nor why it should be as short range.

As for possible AA's, that seems to be going in the right direction already.

[dindaur]

if i was given the option between double burst and burst touch light, i would choose the former.

[Khael]

But the point is, you're not.

edit: I thought I'd clarify that some more. If all our other heals were pathetically useless (for example, if Light didn't exist, and we'd be forced to use Touch instead), then I think we might have a case for unlinking Bursts. But since Light exists, no such case can be made. We have a second line of heals to complement the Burst line. The problem is that the second line is a bit underpowered - not so underpowered as to be useless, but just about enough to make it a bother.

Comparing our Bursts to the SK's lifetaps is in vain, because they don't have that second line of lifetaps to complement their primary one.

[dindaur]

your point is i'm not given the choice? well... i don't know much of a point THAT is. When was the last time sony ever gave us a choice on anything! It's just a matter of speach to say choice.

[dindaur]

[Khael]

You might, but anyone who's not level 80 with both bursts would not.

[dindaur]

i think it's a mistake to assume they would object without giving them a chance to speak for themselves. while i anticpate a contingent of the group pallies to object to the idea, i don't assume it.

[Hulkling]

2 bursts ain't gonna happen. Yer welcome to lobby for it though lol.

Anyhoo, I actually like the idea of combining touch and light....as long as the end result doesn't suck. Get a cast time and heal amount somewhere inbtween the two, and get the range and no recast of touch.

[dindaur]

i do not feel motivated to lobby for double burst. not yet.

i think combining touch and light could be interesting.
i do not believe the cast time should be in between. i enjoy lights fast cast time. i would not want to lose that.
i rate more range as a nice but non essential bonus.

[Hulkling]

[dindaur]

[kruelcon]

well it may not be that usefull or any mitigation but if it stuns a yellow mob on inc for 1 sec the mob stops when charging also pushed back. That gives me a mob i dont have to fight for agro on with the sk's it stops they ae taunt by the time it gets to camp i have challenge and a stun in on it. everyone plays there class the way they want i used divine stun line alot on inc to pick off a mob may not be much agro or anything else but i used it alot. just cause i like the way it worked. now if we could get a real upgrade imo they should add bout 1k heal to our light spell to make it more usefull and something to use all the time that dont lock out the spell bar like burst does. burst is awsome but light dont have that lockout and making it 27-2800ish spell would make us the burst healers (using light and when emergency use burst) healers that we are trying to get to be. sk's got there burst dps to where they want to be the sk's in our guild can push over 3kdps on mobs like the orc in soltaris. Right now light isn't even close to high enough of a heal to make a difference on a 5-12k hittin mobs imo.

[dindaur]

[knytul]

heres a few tid bits for yall to think about:
Monks: Impenetratable Discipline: Same as our DA except they can melee during it too. And, it can block PoFear DT's from golems.
Mages getting a similar heal to our Lay Hands i believe for pets.
Or how about: HoT Pots are STRONGER than our own HoT Spell. We have the current weakest HoT in game.
Benediction and Last Rites being Linked even tho they are 2 different detrimental abilities
(i could go on for days but gotta get to class)

[dindaur]

[knytul]

everything together should for 1 reason: Every class seems to be getting better versions of our own abilities. Seems to me we are getting walked over.

[dindaur]

[dindaur]

it's one thing to have access to an ability, it's another to hold the sole rights to that ability indefinately. we don't have rights to our abilities, we just have access to them.

[Bruennor]

Funny, sk's feel the same way about us possibly getting ae hate, even if its in cone form.

I don't think its worth asking for compensation for pharming out of abilities because it seems the dev's hold no skill sacred now. So might as well move on to thinking of the old and start thinking of the new, like an all purpose heal that you are all mentioning that has the speed of a light and the power and range of a touch. There is no point for both of those heals to exist, in all honesty, because with the way lights are upgraded, ours will be worthless next expansion, and touch close to worthless as well I think.

[Tallanor]

Since we deviated off topic discussing divine stun, I do think there is usefulness for an upgrade to the pushback component of divine stun. The pushback would have to fall in around the 2-3 times melee range. The usefulness falls in line with multiple mob pulls without crowd control. In tight quarters the usefullness of being able to stun a mob, followed by root followed by pushback is quite useful. We can not use the damage pushback stun line to accomplish this since the damage component almost always breaks the root. Being able to sort or separate adds like this, in my opinion is a worthwhile skill and worth the potential of an upgrade. Divine stun and hand of disruption being linked doesn't bother me, since its an either or situation in using these, the disruption as an interrupt and the divine stun as a mob positioning tool.

Current examples of this sort of pushback in crowd control avenues, the new sof aa enchanter push back memblur line, the ranger pushback root line. Precedence in this area is there I don't see any reason for developer resistance here.

[dindaur]

i really think that its a great idea to add a bit more push to the divine stun line. i think it could be really helpful and we don't need it for any other reason.

[Bruennor]

I don't really care about push on divine stun. With the push changes some time in the past, push just isnt as much of an issue as it used to be, for me anyway. And our spell push stuns work great now for taking care of that push.

And I don't see a thread called "Lets Try to Get Something Back" as being entirely about divine stun. Sounds to me like a thread where folks discuss why they should get something back, and what that something should be.

[dindaur]

[Hulkling]

[dindaur]

can i make fun of you for using a 3 and 5 for the 2 unit precision?

i have to be honest, i've never overpushed. if it needed to go somewhere, it was always a decent distance. if it weren't, it probably wouldn't be worth trying to position anyway.

but i hear ya

[Khael]

I would rather spend points on an AA that increased push and/or resist mod on Divine Stun rather than an AA that increased the max level it can land on. That's just me though.

That's not to say that's what this entire thread should be about, nor has it been I think.

[dindaur]

agreed, in my opinion, the level increase aspect, when the divine stun push will work regardless of level, is really just outrageous to ask for.

[Blabberpuss Stryyker]

Any further need to buy AA's for Divine stun would be worthlessly spent. Only after Packrat would I spend further on Divine Stun.

[kruelcon]

i would like to see our light spell get up to like 2800 base heal to be useable or our touch up to like 3500 or so to make them worth using. I dont think thats out of range for us specially with the content we fight hitting for 5-12k. can we get existing spells up to where there usefull? our best group heal crits a little over 7k ( i only have rk2 absolution atm) and on the raid content we fight thats almost something to laugh at with the recast timer on chaining 2 of them trash hits for 5k +. we are known for our group heals i think they should be a little more when most people in the raid are over 30k hoping for a 7k crit to get a save if your lucky.

[Khael]

I'm not in SoF raiding content yet, but I can see how it might be problematic. Perhaps some devs could take a look at the ratio of MaxHP:HealAmount and how it's changed over the past couple of expansions? Slippery slope and all that... I'm not even sure we're the only ones in this boat.

[Genadinee]

Raiding SoF Content the only viable heals for a Paladin are the Group Heal and Burst Heal but NOT the Group Burst.

Group Heals will always be required wherever there is either AE's or 'controlled chaos'

Burst Heal is 4-5K focussed and 13K Critting so does fill a decent amount on most toons and its fast cast usually ensures it lands.

Group Burst is just a great way to empty 20K Mana in a short period of time and servers no other purpose.

[Tallanor]

Another thing we definitely need in the upcoming expansion is an upgrade to our crusaders purity line, this cure line has kind of stagnated and while everything focus on corruption now a days maybe we could use a slight counter upgrade with a little corruption counters added in as well, to keep in line of the weak cure all type spell.

Another thing I wouldn't mind seeing upgraded is our root. Were using a root from the pop era, now while functionally there is nothing wrong with it is is fast cast and usually doesn't last oh so long, I wouldn't mind seeing an upgrade to it, whether spell or aa based. If aa based, I could see a root lasting 90 seconds without breaking other then by multiple dispell, or damage nuking/procing with maybe a 10-12 second recast penalty. Our root seems to be the equivalent to shadowknight feigning death in terms of our pulling/cc ability, so its kind of a core ability, with no hope of pacification upgrades in the future root is our only option pulling wise, when singles can not be attained easily. But characteristics of a potential upgrade are definitely an open topic worth discussing.

[dindaur]